FFB Update Discussion Thread (June 2021)

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Thomas Jansen, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Ratings:
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    Ok then, what do you feel with the new ffb, and what are you looking for?
    What are your settings, in-game and in drivers? have you set the multiplier correctly?
     
  2. Ho3n3r

    Ho3n3r Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0
    The FFB was the main reason I uninstalled this a few years ago. Saw the update, installed it again, and what a difference. Close to the most communicative I have driven.

    Will definitely put some more time into Raceroom from now on.
     
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  3. zed

    zed Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2021
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    i give you examples of what i feel to maybe see if other logitech guys also have same feeling or not
    with note that i'm novice, don't know a lots of brake point and not fallowing the school racing line in good manner yet and i'm not keeping the wheel with full force - for trying to feel that very low vibration ffb of curb (g923 xbox ver)
    car: silhuoette series / cougar c14-1 #26
    track: raceroom raceway bridge


    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 70
    • Minimum Force 3 (sometimes feel something when wheel lose in center but not much)
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0
    default one i think. don't give any ffb when passing between 2 different curbs when you hit the wall of blue/white one, no ffb feeling until you take off from them with small vibration.


    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 70
    • Minimum Force 15
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0

    just give useless vibration when wheel lose in center - nothing else

    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 70
    • Minimum Force 0
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0


    without useless vibration when wheel lose in center and nothing in center feel


    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 100
    • Minimum Force 0
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0


    feel some curb vibration but if you keep the wheel with force you lose all the information.



    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 50
    • Minimum Force 0
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0

    feel some curb vibration but softer and more ham feeling than last setup that make it sometimes miss it for me if i put little pressure on wheel.


    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 50
    • Minimum Force 15
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0

    just give useless vibration when wheel lose in center - nothing else

    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 100
    • Minimum Force 15
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 0
    • Shift Effects 0
    just give useless vibration and higher than upper one when wheel lose in center - nothing else
    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 70
    • Minimum Force 3
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 25
    • Shift Effects 0

    can feel that wall if i don't pressure on wheel when turning. but miss most of time - it also buff the road bump a lot more than the curb

    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 70
    • Minimum Force 3 (sometimes feel something when wheel lose in center but not much)
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 50
    • Shift Effects 0
    feel weak but still better - but make start finish line like rally road with a lots of bump, feels like car jump none stop.

    i also see some big spike but don't feel anything from wheel - donno what are they

    sadly i don't know who is the tester of loghitech wheel beside developer Thomas Jansen with G29 for asking.
    am i feeling the FFB of wheel right?o_O
    or i'm still looking at it in wrong way?:confused:


    if you also interest from other topic
     
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  4. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Ratings:
    +103 / 0 / -0
    You've been testing extreme settings that won't feel good. Min force 3 % linearity 65% and bump amp at 30%. Adjust multiplier per car to make sure you're not clipping. Drive some with those settings. Try to feel what the car is doing.

    After that if you feel that weak forces are too weak decrease linearity more. If you want more road vibration increase bump. Dead zone in the center is a characteristic of low end wheels, you won't get rid of it completely.

    You will not feel rattling on every curb or every collision so don't look for it.
     
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  5. GregoryLeo

    GregoryLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2015
    Ratings:
    +360 / 0 / -0
    I'm running pretty close to the same on my G29 and am quite happy with it. And at the same time I spent a lot of time doing very small adjustments to get to where it feels good
     
  6. Manuel Alves

    Manuel Alves New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    I've never changed FFB or wheels settings. Sometimes I lower the FFB multiplier for long races (like 2.4h Nords), but that's it. The FFB was perfect. Why mess with it?
    I don't feel anything with the new FFB, even with multiplier at 5x. The only feedback for locking brakes or losing traction is sound, nothing on the FFB on the wheel.
     
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  7. pfoetiman

    pfoetiman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    To me it is the best FFB I ever used and I play(ed) a lot of different racing games (AC, ACC, AMS2, iR). I can feel everything. Even the paving stones on Nordschleife. I didn‘t delete anything. In the beginning I was a little bit disappointed but when I changed my the steering lock from 1080 to 900 (in my wheel software), I got a big wow effect. Maybe this can help someone. Btw. I am using a SC2 Sport.
     
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  8. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Have you even read any of the FFB setup guides?
    What do you see on the ffb graph? I imagine with 5x the graph imediately goes red and that is why you can't feel anything.
    For me the working range for multiplier is 1,5 - 3 that's where most of my settings are.

    Try my settings and set up ffb multiplier correctly. You can watch DDF Racer or Chris Haye on youtube thay have great guides how to do it.

    Also check if you have latest driver and firmware. firmware number should be 35 for T150.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  9. *****

    ***** New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    Another experience:
    With the old FFB I was permanently fiddling with the FFB multiplier for each car - mostly increasing it a bit to a lot. I've now just increased the ingame FFB and wheelbase FFB (Fanatec DD1) and I'm really happy with the default FFB multipliers in the default car setup - no need to touch anything except loading the default setup. Every car feels absolutely plausible.

    My settings:
    • Ingame FFB 70% (Fanatec Formula Rim) or 80% (Fanatec BMW GT2 Rim)
    • Wheelbase FFB 100%
    • Car FFB multiplier: loaded from standard setup
    This is a bit on the heavier side, but I would recommend only to adjust the ingame FFB to your liking and not to tune the car multiplier individually, because I've found that the relation of FFB in between the cars in the standard setups makes sense, as long as the newest physics is used in the car.
     
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  10. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Ratings:
    +803 / 0 / -0
    After a break I went back to it in the past days. My second impression.

    The changes seem to have been made to allow greater subtelty in feedback. By this, so the hope seems to be, more "realism" is being achieved. The overall feeling had to be lightend up, had to be eased, to put it in words, so to have subtle effects making themselves better felt.

    On the downside, this "realism" comes at the cost of a reduced sense for mass, weight, real weight I mean. Everything feels very light now, toy-like, like AC Classic, which also had very subtle steering effects and feelings, but by that becomes very "light" in weight perception. The cars do not weigh some hundred kilograms anymore, they weigh just a handful of pounds.

    To me, all in all, this feels more unrealistic, therefore. Plus it kills a good amount of immersion for me. Simulations always are about illusions, even "realistic" sims are illusions, no mamtter the genre. A sim is never the real thing, it pretends to be the rela thing - by forming an illusion more or less successfully. This new chnage in FFB now pushes me out of the illusion. I do not really like the way things have gone here. And I found that I ended up all my test sessions with - playing ACC in the end. Which conserves more of the "massive feel" that before was kind of a trademark of Raceroom, a positive in my book.

    Fair to say that it also depends on the chosen car class. With some cars the changes are more for the worse (imo) than in others. Also, in some cars it seems the chnage sindeed work for the better. I like the KTM a lot now.

    All in all I could have happily lived on without these changes in FFB.
     
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  11. Manuel Alves

    Manuel Alves New Member

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    Exactly. I only ask the developers to please give us the option to use the previous FFB. If people are happy with the new FFB, good for them, they wouldn't lose the new FFB. But please don't tell me I was having fun wrong with previous FFB. It was the best FFB (and I have RF1, RF2, AMS and AC to compare).
    And no, I don't mess with FFB settings, FFB should work out of the box, like it used to.
     
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  12. Pedro Garrido

    Pedro Garrido New Member

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    Jul 22, 2019
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    +2 / 0 / -0
    Pues despues de haber probado el nuevo ffb en mi ts pcracer decir que es una delicia.... acompañado claro de 4 bodysacker con simvibe. Tengo muy buena sensacion de fisicas al conducir y un ffb muy bueno. Gracias raceroom
     
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  13. GregoryLeo

    GregoryLeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2015
    Ratings:
    +360 / 0 / -0
    So I know I’m being a bit over the top and gushy about the new ffb, but that’s who I am. When I like something I like to express my appreciation.
    Anyway, thanks to sector 3 again for the update. My two hands down most favorite cars in Raceroom are the M1 procar and the Chevy Decon Monza. But when the new tire physics came out, I simply couldn’t keep them on the track. I know, they put a tuned down version of the m1 in group 4, but it just didn’t get me going. So now, with the new ffb I can actually feel how the car is handling. FLICKING YAY! They are now more fun than ever. I found myself at one part of a race on hungaroring in the M1 braking too late into t2 and was able to keep enough control to push it into a drift and make the corner anyway. I have never been able to do that before. And just to prove it wasn’t a fluke I tried it several more times, until it got a little too confident and piled it up into the wall on the fourth try To actually be able to feel the car reacting to my input hasn’t ever been so clear and I’m loving it. The Decon was just as much fun but in a totally different way as it should be. .
    Thanks for giving back my to most favorite cars.
     
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  14. sloppshaa

    sloppshaa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    my original review still stands.
    Getting down to 37.8's in the F3 server yesterday, with the car setup so it turns in without understeer and balancing it, i'm doing quick snap corrections and things that i find myself usually doing in AC.
    it's certainly more subtle than AC but it's still all there, the fact that i can now find that limit and feel it through the ffb............my gosh. Variante Alte is another good example where you transition quickly right left, the weight transfer is quick and you can still feel it and quickly snap opposite lock to get it back but keep the momentum going, it's not just a case of correcting and losing time.
    Certainly the physics don't have quite the same depth as AC but honestly i do not care, as i said before.....i haven't had so much fun in a racing game in years.
    Did 4 races in a row, and due to the fantastic collision model, some of the closest and fairest racing i've ever had.
    Look at this for example. You simply cannot do this in any other game. You might see things that Look like this in say iracing, but it's mostly artificial because the players have to give each other so much room and 'respect' due to the ridiculous damage model, that they can sometimes end up either driving half the lap side by side, or, just letting each other go through.



    notice my opposite lock coming out of Tosa, that's the snap corrections i can do because of the ffb.

    as an addendum to my original review/youtube review, i still stand by my every word. I think there was some confusion with the developer on here about what i meant by 'steering rack forces', sure it's the case raceroom are simulating this but the ultimate end result is still more of a 'gforce' feel. I recently drove a single seater again (and beat Joylon palmers lap record time...................subscribe to my channel for the upcoming video next week, got some terrific onboard + visorcam footage) and whereas before i was like, it's 90% gforce, 10% steering feel that the driver uses to drive on the limit........well.........it's more like 99.9% gforce. The steering forces that you feel in your hands in the car is almost irrelevant.
     
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  15. sloppshaa

    sloppshaa Member

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    this is a classic case of liking feeling of some kind of mass, rather than feeling and reacting to information that is actually required to drive on the limit i.e. the gforces.
    there's no such thing as realism or unrealistic when it comes to FFB. We are all sat still in a simrig, and missing the vital gforce information that drivers use in real life.
    So what a game needs to do is try to communicate to the player information that is required to drive the car on the limit, the gforces, in some other way, through the FFB. Period. Nothing else matters.
     
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  16. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Ratings:
    +99 / 0 / -0
    I see a lot of rave reviews, but no one has ever shared the TMX settings. Maybe I don't understand something, but I don't have any min ffb, so I can't feel the terrain - it's just a buttery ride.
     
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  17. Hervé45

    Hervé45 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2017
    Ratings:
    +135 / 0 / -0
    test with
    minimum force 3%
    linearity 70%
     
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  18. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Then then try to lower linearity if you need to bring up the lower forces. I've settled with 65% for now. (T150)
     
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  19. Mike Kara

    Mike Kara Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2021
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    spent some time tweaking my t500 and these settings are best I figured out
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    maybe they gonna be useful to some other thrustmaster user
     
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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  20. zed

    zed Member

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    Jan 21, 2021
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    the more i read other logitech setup the less i'm connect with you guys.:worried:
    the last setup i go with my test setup:
    car: silhuoette series / cougar c14-1 #26
    track: raceroom raceway bridge

    • Strength 100
    • Linearity 72
    • Minimum Force 1
    • Maximum Force 100
    • Stationary Friction 50
    • Engine Vibrations 0
    • Bump Amplification 26
    • Shift Effects 0
    also ffb multiplier at 2.3
    . very little spike on over red line but no clipping feel. ( i think i'm far from close to car limit to make it clip yet:nomouth:) time 1.17 at moment.
    +
    the curb sound is have more effect than FFB:sweatsmile:

    update: what i take of going Minimum Force to 3? when i let wheel go by itself it only vibrate. do i need to look at something in Minimum Force 3?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021