AI Behaviour

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kris_peeters, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. kris_peeters

    kris_peeters Member

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    The more SP races I do, the more I feel that the AI behaves too much like robots that are glued to a rail on the road.
    I would really like to see them behave more like humans who make mistakes from time to time and pay the price for doing so. This would make races more fun and unpredictable, just like in real life racing. No driver is perfect, they all have their good and bad races.
    So please make them more like their "real life counterparts" and let them make mistakes like this
     
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  2. shardshunt

    shardshunt Well-Known Member

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    If the ai were allowed to make common mistakes such as accidentally closing the door and spinning or locking the breaks and rear ending the player the amount of people who would start shouting and swearing in this very forum would be just silly.

    I would like to see the ai run a bit wide every once in a while though. and the biggest thing is I'd like to see a lot more variance of the start line.
     
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  3. kris_peeters

    kris_peeters Member

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    Hey shardshunt,

    To avoid people complaining about that, I think there should be a fourth level ( aside from novice, amateur, get real ), something like a "true to life" level where we can have the true to life AI together with a true to life damage system so that the die hard racing simulator fans can have real exciting, unpredictable, sometimes even frustrating races with the AI. Races where the smallest mistakes from you or the AI, can have a big influence on the race. This will also make for more variance of the start line like you want.
     
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  4. goldtop

    goldtop Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy the ai in RR but their braking behaviour needs looking at imho. Generally they seem to brake much later and harder than grip would allow but then have a very slow entry to apex speed. This means that you have to brake on a different line into the corners to avoid tail ending them. Once you've learned this it's easy to outbreak them before the apex at which point they always give up the position which makes it all very unrealistic for me.
     
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  5. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    In terms of pace and predictability it's easy to race with. At a fundamental level it's good AI. At the same time, that predictability is also the biggest problem with it. There is very little of the unpredictability that makes real life motorsport so interesting.

    There are almost no retirements due to accidents (actually I've only ever seen one but that was due to poor AI overtaking paths through a tyre-stack chicane, not a natural-looking accident). There are almost no retirements or pitstops due to mechanical faults or failures. It's very rare for an entire field of cars to finish a race (in real life) without being affected by either of these things. However, I appreciate this isn't just an R3E problem.

    There are very few organic looking spins or driver errors. You may see a couple of minor incidents when the field is bunched-up on the first lap but once the gaps occur it is very rare to see an AI car run wide, out-brake themselves or get tangled up with another car.

    Everyone has their own views and requirements for AI behaviour so I guess some UI options would be useful. Things like aggression, frequency of mistakes, frequency of accidents, frequency of retirements, etc.....if that's possible.

    Personally I just want AI races to feel alive and organic, not the procession we have now where every starter finishes. For instance, playing Stock Car Extreme recently I witnessed a huge AI crash that came out of nowhere and looked real. Two cars immediately retired, another two retired shortly after and a further four cars in the pits for lengthy repairs that put them a lap down. I remember those kind of races.
     
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  6. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member

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    I bought rFactor 1 a few weeks ago on the steam sale, and their AI is also really good.
    You see them overtake each other, out-brake themselves, run wide, crash in walls and going in to the pit for mechanical issues.
    I was battling an AI in Formula rookie when he suddenly burst into flames!! Things like that make awesome, alive and thrilling races! [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. DawdlingDan

    DawdlingDan New Member

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    I really hope for more variation in the AI too. Right now they race well but it's like they're on rails in terms of the lines they take. The AI definitely need to be affected by mechanical failures and make mistakes. I rarely race online so these factors are very important for me.
     
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  8. Emerson Meyer

    Emerson Meyer Well-Known Member

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    My collection of "dislikes" is good enough.

    I will not say a word about the AI in this game anymore.
     
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  9. mr_belowski

    mr_belowski Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    ;)
     
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  10. Emerson Meyer

    Emerson Meyer Well-Known Member

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  11. mr_belowski

    mr_belowski Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Must... Not... Press... Dislike... Again....
     
  12. Robert Holm

    Robert Holm KW Studios Developer

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    About AI, I can say that I'm revisiting it. Mainly to improve sharp hairpins like on Macau, which in turn made me redo a whole lot (still wip..). When they behave exactly as predictable as I want them to, then the time might come to add in some mistakes and failures. No use in doing it prematurely. These fixes also make them more prone to overtaking again, which got a bit (accidentally) reduced in last fix. Also improves their emergency braking some.

    Hard to do it all at once, need to do improvements in steps and evaluate the results over time, and if pleasing move on to next step :) Some patience needed here.
     
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  13. mr_belowski

    mr_belowski Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Cool, except for the needing patience bit :)
     
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  14. richlevy2003

    richlevy2003 Well-Known Member

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    If possible, it would be nice having a slider to increase/decrease their aggressiveness. As my abilities and skills increase per track and racing series I like to have an ai that is more challenging and willing to take the same types of risks a human driver would.

    Rich
     
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  15. kris_peeters

    kris_peeters Member

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    Hi Robert,

    this is very good news. Hope you find solutions soon, but agree that it is better to take your time to do it right, so we can have some real exciting races against the AI.
    We really appreciate all the time and effort you guys make to bring us the ultimate racing sim!

    We will be waiting (im)patiently. :D
     
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  16. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member

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    And don't forget to include mechanical issues/damage and random pit stop times for the AI as well! :)

    Edit:
    Oh, and different pit stop strategies, so they don't go into the pits all at once when mandatory, fuel etc is implemented.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
  17. machwebb

    machwebb Well-Known Member

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    Cut track penalties too...
     
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  18. kris_peeters

    kris_peeters Member

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    Hi heppsan,

    In ADAC series 2014 you can set mandatory pit stops ( driver change ) and there the AI does pit at different times (sometimes even pit too late ( very good, leave it as it is) ). So hopefully they implement that for all the races and classes.
    I do wish that in qualifying, the AI would improve on their times more. Now they just mostly make their fastest time on the second lap or so and then just keep driving ( even bunching up behind a slower opponent ) for the remainer of the time.
    They should pit, go out again to try and improve on their times ( maybe when we get to choose fuel, tires, etc)

    I agree 200% with the mechanical issues/damage, we really really need that.
     
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  19. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member

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    And also get them self disqualified for not care / forget the penalties on occasions.


    I know, but the times I have seen them pit in the R3E mode they have all pitted at once.

    +1 about the improvement of their lap times, we also need to get the time accelerator working till then...
     
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  20. Nigel Fox

    Nigel Fox Well-Known Member

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    I like the AI too, but it also gives me fits, as I stated in another thread. To me, they make about the right number of mistakes, misjudging turns and going wide, taking each other out, etc. What I don't appreciate is them using me as an extra brake in turns.

    One more thing that baffles me is how the bots race with different levels of prowess on different tracks. I'm sure that a lot of newbies like me cut their teeth on Brands Hatch to get used to the racing. But the bots perform poorly on Brands Hatch, and on some tracks, unless I set the difficulty very low especially in DTM races, I find the bots to be uncatchable. Let me add that the way I race is "wrong." It's Gran Turismo style, in which I start at about 14th place and try to catch the leader by the last lap. Yes, this is terribly arcadish, but I'm addicted to all that catching and passing. It gives an inflated sense of accomplishment, but I'm funny that way. And finding a difficulty level to accommodate this silly predilection of mine can be quite a chore sometimes, as I often blow past the field or end up losing position every lap - and this with the same difficulty! This is problematic with championships, because I end up winning with a couple of laps to go on Brands Hatch, but can end up in last place on Hockenheim and a few other tracks. I don't need to win to have a satisfying race, I can be in the middle of the field as long as I'm enjoying the contest, but being blown out of the water isn't fun.

    I suppose the answer is to race properly and do qualifying, and it's possible that I'm just bad at certain tracks, but I don't think so. I'm doing well on the Leaderboards, usually 8th or higher, and am a long time racing addict. I'm wondering if overall bot performance per track is just one of those factors that hasn't been paid any attention. Just curious, it could all be down to me in the end and I just have to "human" up. ;)
     
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