Force Feedback Weight

I generally turn my wheel on before I even turn on my PC, just to be sure everything is recognized properly. I always have it turned on before firing up any sim and if I switch rims I usually shut down the sim, turn off the wheel, swap the rim, then turn the wheel back on before firing the sim back up (some sims don't like having the wheel turned off while the sim is running so I just make it a habit to always shut everything down when doing a rim swap).

 

First test is done, no change. I removed all the controller profiles from My Documents, even the profiles for my other wheels. Started R3E and created a new profile for the CSW and took the Audi TT out with the default FFB settings, it felt good but was too heavy. Dialed back the steering force intensity and the vert/lat loads and got it to where it was actually feeling quite good, still got a bit too heavy in the turns and a bit too light around the center, but overall felt good. So then I took out some of the "old physics" cars (DTM 93 E30, Audi GTO, DTM '14 Merc, Corvette DP) on the same track with the same FFB settings and they all felt very weak and actually got light in the corners instead of getting heavy. There also seemed to be less information coming through the wheel.

It's likely that this is something to do with the differing physics, but I wouldn't think there would be such a huge gap between the two physics models. The only real solution I can see is having two different controller profiles, one for the old model and one for the new model. If I had turned my steering force intensity up about 20-25% I think the old cars probably would have felt similar to the Audi TT, but with the same settings the FFB was light, numb, and not at all enjoyable. I did not tinker with the FFB settings though because I want to test the TT tonight to see if it feels the same as it did yesterday since my other problem was that the same car could feel very different from one session to another.

 

@Brandon Wright did you uninstall and reinstall the wheel drivers too?

 

good info brandon. Try something... for me.. try Vert/later forces at 200 and steer force at 20?

 

No, I only had about 30 minutes to do testing before I had to leave for the evening and just wanted to jump into it. I'll give it a try, but all my other sims seem to be fine so I tend to doubt it's a driver issue. But it's important to be thorough so I'll uninstall/reinstall tonight.

I'll try it, but I generally find that the lower the steering force is the more numb everything feels. I'm also going to try resetting the ver/lat to the default (V: 100, L: 120) and just dialing back the steering force until it feels good and see if that creates an overall more pleasing feeling.

One odd thing I noticed, adjusting the FFB intensity seems to do very little. I tried it at 100, 75, and 50 and couldn't really feel a difference between any of them. But adjusting the steering force intensity by just a couple percentage makes a very noticeable difference.

 

ive been messing a bit "again" last nite with the ffb. I came to the idea that vert forces effect bumps and up.n down movement of the tyre, Lateral effect self aligning force or steer torque, but wont work on its own and is dependent on steer force and vice versa.

So in my setup the lower steer force is compensated by the higher vertical force. So what im trying to understand is, what feels better higher steer force against higher lateral force,?

 

i found this on an old empty box video...

"FFB settings w/ Fanatec CSW v2 - Formula Rim
900 rotation / 30 lock
100 Force / FF, everything else off.

Ingame :
85% Intensity
0 Smoothing, damper, friction, spring

100% Steering force Intensity
100% Understeer
65% Vertical force
25% Lateral
0% Rack

0 effects

The relationship between the Vertical and Lateral forces is key for a good feel IMO. I had tried 25% lateral early in my search, but had the vertical too low which felt like crap. I'd like to lower the vertical force (to smooth out the ultra bumpy surfaces) but by doing so it throws everything out of whack as the vertical force effects the lateral forces. Raise the lateral and it just feels like a big ol' spring for FFB.

I don't have a clue why on the S3S/R3E forums the vertical force is "recommended" at 100-200 and there are people suggesting going as high as 300. That sounds like riding in a cement mixer.

 

Well worth taking the time to learn basics of setting a car up (really not difficult) there's a plethora of simple guides on the old inter web and once you have the jist a lot of problems can be dialed out very easily.
Fancy the easiest overtake in RRE is to just follow someone til they oversteer outta a bend, couple little clicks and that wouldn't happen (so often) yet some will spend hours on every other in sim settings FFB etc Once the car handles right and your times start dropping everything else generally falls into place!

 

goose, your obviously a RRE fan and I understand. BUt it does have its issues with ffb, exploited setups so anything but the new cars are pretty much flawed in my view.

I'm sure S3 will strive to fix them.

 

True, but I don't think anything in the car setup would account for me having to increase the steering force intensity by 25-30% between old physics and new physics cars. Or the other issue I had where a car would go from feeling great in one session and then becoming very heavy after simply restarting the game. Not really sure what it could be, I guess for now I'm just going to need to create a controller profile for old physics and another one for new physics.

 

I'm a driving sim fan and when Devs have already told us that FFB updates are imminent just can't see the point of bitchin til after the update, Devs obviously know there's a few problems and are sorting it, evolution, not revolution.

 

fair enough any news of an eta?

 

when its done ....
its in testing now and it will depend on how it goes what problems it solves and creates
but im sure whatever is done wont stop you posting and moaning ...
sorry Msportdan if i sound off or bitchy , but it is constant from you and you contradict yourself , repeat yourself all the time .... and in all fairness its boring , 90%unproductive and pants

sorry but im not alone in thinking this

Andi

 

so I decided to fiddle with FFB little bit, to try some higher vertical and lateral forces and lower steering force as mentioned in this thread .. I used RUF GT3 on Brands Indy
First try was:

steering: 30
vertical: 100
lateral: 120

feel quite fine, maybe too springy, too much arguably unrealitic feeling of a bumps, ffb sometimes interfeering with my steering, I would say this setting is more for a good feeling of a driving than feeling of car
Than I tried lower vertical, than lower lateral, usualy compensating with higher steering, I tried something in the middle, different combinations ..
At the end I settle with:

steering: 60
vertival: 60
lateral: 80

I have nice road feel, I can feel car well, nothing is interfeering with steering, tight around centre without spinginess.

And considering my original settings before testing were:
steering 70
vertical: 60 (i forget to put it back to 20 when I tested bump feeling for Dan)
lateral: 85
I`m pretty confident I have what suits me
EDIT:
at the last moment I decided to mixed it up little bit and my final for now are:
steering 60
vertical: 80
lateral: 60
gives me better feeling of a car, more natural when tyres are less loaded .. closes to other sims I`m playing ..

 

i understand, andi, i think a lot of my frustration comes from the constant searching for good ff. settings. Its not something new, I’ve been doing it since RRe beginnings. I probably have contradicted myself many a times. Set new ffB - quite like it - try another sim or have a break - come back and it feels crap! Back round the merry go round we go again.

Thats pretty boring & pants tool. So sorry if I’m asking questions or trying to seek perfection. Maybe my standards of ffB feeling are higher than yours?

You can search the many Raceroom forums, VirtualR comments, steam reviews etc etc
i KNOW im not alone in thinking this

 

Your not alone by a long way, i posted this initially because of the difficulty in finding a decent balance across the range of cars which appears to be near impossible, It cant all be the end user which i think has been acknowledged in sorts, we will just have to wait and see what the next patch brings if anything!
It is a good game, it has issues and can be very very frustrating to the point of why do i bother but i do same as yourself, there is a diamond in there somewhere one day we may just find it but on the flipside of that the day may come where you say enough is enough and be gone for good. I hope its the former, time will tell.

 

So, I finally got around to doing a small bit more testing last night. Deleted my controller profiles, uninstalled/reinstalled the Fanatec drivers, fired up R3E and got the same results with the new physics cars feeling heavy and the old physics cars feeling way light. But, even when I cranked up the Steering Force Intensity it made no difference to the old physics cars, they felt horrible and light and the wheel didn't even want to center itself. So, something certainly isn't right on my end. I'm thinking I need to add in a bunch of damper to get the old physics cars to work, which is odd because I never had to do that before, but I recall a time in the past when I was testing on my T300 and turned down the sliders in the profiler and got a similar feeling from the wheel.

Also, I got the Audi TT feeling ok but it didn't feel good. It was too light around the center and basically had a huge deadzone where I felt nothing from the car/tires. It also was having huge spikes when going over bumps that would actually move the wheel about 20º which was rather unpleasant. I didn't have a lot of time to test, but the results certainly weren't pleasing. Back to the drawing board I guess.

 

today I notice it is really about what sim I drive before jumping to R3E

 

I personally think RR is desperate for a min force setting which as been said by george and the beta guys its incoming.

Ive pretty much written off driving the old physics car, they are not even in the same ball park as the new cars. I really wish could maybe filter the cars by physics or content owned…..

…or wait a minute.?

Ouvert..1000% agree with that, try coming from rf2 then trying rres old cars? or even race07

Was playing that for hours last night its such a shame the ai have balance issues across the tracks and cars (makes finding an ai level impossible) because i think i would uninstall RR for race07.

 

The only cars I struggle to get a good feeling from is the old physics front wheel drive cars, old physics rear wheel are great with a bit of setup advise from Andi (I think). It's almost like I have to force the wheel back to centre after turning. Not sure how to dial that out though.