No worries mate! But as Nate said, I just try to help. I don't have the slightest idea how those cars behaves in real life, or how much of an impact 60-80 litres of fuel have on their performance. I was just pointing out that the fuel amout do make a difference in the game. The Nissan GTO have 50 litres in the tank on default, and with that I had no problems spining out of control in the starts. But on this car as well a full tank made an impact. Tried with the G5 again and with 50 litres I didn't need to change the final drive to spin. I have also tried to find vids of Group 5 cars taking off, but most of those races is with rolling starts. I did however find this Hillclimb vid of a G5 car, not exactly the same model. But it sounds like this car lose some power just after the start: If it's a simillar thing, or if the driver takes his foot off the throttle I don't know.. By the way, I'm not finding excuses. I don't need to, I didn't make the phisics of the cars. And I understand your points and concerns, we don't want our favorites taken away from us. A side note about the Audi 90. I still drive and enjoy it, don't know if it's more accurate now or not, but I don't drive it as much as I once did.
I know you do Heppsan, i like that As i wrote after the update i like the new physics, it`just this little thing that annoys me. I just want this sim to be as realistic as possible. My intention is not harm anyone or the sim. I just want this sim to be the best. Onyone can look at my profile and see how many kilometers and days i have in this sim. There is a reason to why those numbers are high Looks like more than i like to drive group 5 cars on hillclimb I think your video confirms this issue. The video belowe is before the update and i think its closer to your video than how the cars act to day (at the start).
Alright, did some investigating here, and I think is an issue I reported a while back. I dont think anything is actually wrong with the cars, but this rather an issue with the autoclutch. If you turn autoclutch ON (even if you use an h-shifter), you will get a laggy start no matter if you use a turbo G5 car or non-turbo G5 car. If you turn autoclutch OFF, then you will not get any lag on acceleration and you will take off instantly and spin your tires for a burn out Much like the video that @Xon3 posted. So, I am almost positive you guys have autoclutch set to ON in the vehicle settings menu, which is bogging the cars down on a standing start. Turbo cars really get hammered, since they have, well... a turbo. And that already means they have turbo lag while the turbo spools up. Combine that with the clutch engaging slowly, and this would make it appear that something is wrong with the turbo or something is wrong with the car. Summarizing, if you use the G5 cars and set them to H-shifted mode... turn autoclutch OFF and they will function properly. You will need to clutch when you shift though. If you use autoclutch w/ an h-shifter or paddle shifters, then you will get some lag and be bogged down slightly. In any case... this has already been reported. Cheers
Actually Nate, I think there's a bit more to it than that. I use an h-shifter with manual clutch. If I floor the throttle so it's hitting the limiter and side-step the clutch (release it very suddenly) the turbo (G5 and GTO) cars *do* bog down. It's nowhere near as bad as the bog-down with auto clutch, but they certainly don't light up their rear tyres and try to kill you. I wonder if there's a hard-coded limit to the rate at which the clutch pedal can be released? So even if I release it completely in one almighty crunch the game still allows a bit of slip? Lowering the fuel load *does* help a little, but even with a full tank I would expect a 600+hp rwd car to wheelspin a lot when abused like this.
Nate, even with auto-clutch I have no problem to do a decent start with the N/As (Monza and Vette). (A) From a stop on N just engage 1st at high rpm on "green", or (B) alternatively, engage 1st beforehand while holding brakes, build some rpm accelerating cautiously at the same time, and then simultaneously release brakes and go full throttle at "green" as these cars have plenty of mid-rpm torque - you'll then need to modulate throttle for a good launch so not to keep burning tyres or sideswipe (it's expectable that this last procedure doesn't work well for the Turbos, unless some thought reading auto-clutch engages to help build rpm, but the first example should ideally work). IMHO if the auto-clutch was disengaging slowly on Turbos, it'd actually let the engine keep boost/rpm from a stopped start when 1st is engaged at high rpm from N (procedure A). It feels like it's almost the opposite, where it's disengaged too quickly and bogs the engine down to very low rpm (and yes, at <40L fuel) as if a strong TC was being used. There's also the issue of the turbo boost indicator staying a 0 on N (or clutched as reported above, I can't confirm as I must use auto-clutch), that could explain most of this issue if that isn't only visual. Btw, If I take one Turbo car and try multiple starts and forced stops, at some point it'll be easy to spin it and launch quickly while maintaining boost/rpm, because tyres will be very hot and break traction much easily (as in the previous Capri clip). So if you engage 1st at high rpm from N (A), it'll burn and sidesweep as expected if you prepare the condition for it to happen. But right at a race start, I'm a sitting duck on auto-clutch because it'll always bog down while the AI will launch much quickly (taking an example of qualifying 4th at Spa at 100%). Thanks for your attention.
So, just to be absolutely clear so I am understanding this accurately... You are using h-shifter, a clutch pedal, and you have autoclutch OFF in the vehicle settings menu? And you still get some bog down/lag when you try the turbo G5 (or GTO) cars? Hmm, alright. Did some more testing here... Seems you are using the start procedure I use less often You are shifting into 1st, while having the clutch pedal depressed, yeah? Then you are releasing the clutch (either partially or fully) and when the car starts to accelerate, you notice it bogging down. Is this correct? I use a different start procedure normally. I usually keep it in neutral, rev the snot out of 'er, and then shift into 1st and then the car accelerates. Using this process, the car takes off normally and spins its tires furiously and you will spin out or lose control if you keep your foot nailed to the floor. With autoclutch ON, either start procedure produces lag/bogs down. Hmm, so this is more complicated than I initially thought. The cars physics do have some hard coded values for clutch stuff, although I dont know what the values are, what they do, or how many different variables are interacting. I am aware of an issue with autoclutch use on certain cars, which is why I thought this was the issue here... Which, it is partly... I was able to reproduce exactly what my hypothesis was and added videos to a report for the devs. This issue though is a bit more complex. (The issue i thought it was is briefly summed up as, certain cars have an issue with the clutch engagement, which created a noticeable delay/lag when performing standing starts... and this was related to using autoclutch.) Yeah, this is good info here, thanks to you both. I was thinking this is a different issue than what you guys are describing. However, I have found that in the N/A G5 cars, there is a slight bog down/lag when you use autoclutch and then perform a standing start compared to having autoclutch turned off. It is minimal and didnt really impact acceleration nearly as much as the turbo G5's, but it was there nonetheless. This issue seems dependent on using the clutch pedal to perform a start. Im not sure if the clutch pedal has the same values in the physics files as the autoclutch, so perhaps this could be part of the problem. I'll have to toss this one to the devs and see what they can come up with.
I just tried this, and I can confirm that there is something fishy when you release the clutch to fast with 1 st gear engaged! Having first gear engage and revv up and let go of the clutch really slowly makes the car spin and take off without the engin loosing power. And same as nate said, if you have the car in neutral, revv up, and fast clutch and gear. This was in the Capri on a full tank. Have you reported this @nate ?
Quite odd behavior, I agree. Yeah, this specific issue has been reported to the devs now. I tried to describe it as well as I could for them and included a few video clips showing what happens for those 2 start procedures. Not sure what else to add about this right now. Might just be up to the devs to see what they can find and if they can figure out the cause + a solution.
A little curious how the NSU works with that startup procedure. I know it has a small engine and action on the asphalt might be correct, but on gravel and grass? Perhaps it's a question of grip too. Anyone who wants to test (work all week so I can't test myself)
Could also be something weird in settings for grass/sand surface. I've seen many different behaviors of car in rF1/Race07, depending how modder set values in TDF file. Like, you know, it seemed fine on certain car, with old tire model, so they just copy/paste values for other tracks and with new tires and new types of cars, offroad racing simulation might be a bit wrong here. I guess you don't do extensive testing on other surfaces Could you guys also look into this turbo behavior on neutral/clutched-in? Maybe this is how it should be, but from my experience with normal cars, there is no system that kills turbo in those conditions.
Wait a moment now... who is saying nobody does any testing on other surfaces? That is practically where I spend most of my time going around the lap Well, when my vehicle isnt being plastered to the armco of course Im not sure what this would have to do with different surfaces though. Perhaps I am missing something here. Im sure the devs will take a thorough look at this and try to come to some conclusion. Andi has been saying something feels wrong with the clutch use of certain cars for a while now, which may also be related to the autoclutch stuff I am more familiar with. In any case, it may be a complex issue if it deals with numerous systems that are all interacting, instead of just some value in the physics being a slightly off.
Looks like Turbo behaviour on standing start should be fixed: Gonna check when maintenance will be over
they're a lot better and will wheel spin like crazy if you just dump the clutch while bouncing off the limiter. Although (and I forget to mention this when I was testing, sorry J-F) the GTO Audi still bogs down off the line
But I'm told by Marko that that's how the car is. Lots of grip and long first gear. Turbo is set where it should be.
It's clearly why the Mustang won that year, and thus why noone should be driving the Audi anyway. Vroom vroom, Mustang.