Any chance of a damage multiplier or slider in "get real"?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tpw, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member

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    It's great watching R3E continuing to improve: wonderful range of content; sonically unbeatable; graphically great; the physics and FFB are wonderful; the AI are fantastic; and essential race features are returning one by one.

    However one area where R3E is really lagging behind is collisional damage. Even with "get real", the penalties for crashing are pretty much non-existent for player and AI alike. Colliding with other cars or barriers at 200kmh and/or rolling a car should be race ending, but in R3E more often than not everyone shrugs it off and keeps on racing. With no real disincentives to collisions, one can easily win SP races by using other vehicles and the landscape as a brake. To me this is the number one immersion killer in R3E and the main reason I don't play it as much as I should.

    I remember bringing this up a while ago and being told that improvements to damage modelling were not on the cards. However I wonder if there is a stop gap which doesn't involve rewriting the damage model altogether, but just adds a user selectable multiplier to the current damage so that (in SP at least) the player can dial in the required sensitivity to collisions for player/AI. I understand that developers are probably bound by agreements over how much visual damage their licenced cars can display, but it'd be great to have more realistic damage handling in line with most other titles:

    Clip another car - panel damage
    Clip a barrier - suspension / steering / aero damage
    Hit a wall/barrier at > 60kmh - significant engine/suspension/steering/aero damage
    Hit a wall/barrier at > 120kmh, or roll the car - instant retirement.
     
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  2. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Well-Known Member

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    "With no real disincentives to collisions, one can easily win SP races by using other vehicles and the landscape as a brake. To me this is the number one immersion killer in R3E and the main reason I don't play it as much as I should."

    If you are willing to use vehicles and landscape as a brake, then perhaps you haven't attained the level of immersion you are looking for. ;)
    I always treat the AI as if they are real. It helps with the immersion, and keeps me from picking up habits that may lead me to using real people as brakes/direction modifiers.
    Some people even claim that racing sims have helped them become better drivers in real life - IF this is true, then your habits may even be life threatening!

    If you are playing the AI at an appropriate level for close racing, then hitting a wall head on or rolling the car will effectively end your challenge for the podium positions. The AI should stream past you with big AI grins on their fake little faces.

    Not that I wouldn't like a higher damage option (I'd probably turn it off though, then I won't get upset if the AI/real person does something unreasonable.) but if the developers think it is too much of a hassle (or is in breach of licence contracts) then I bet it is.

    Now the occasional oil spill......I could really get on board for that!
     
  3. Cuba

    Cuba Member

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    I think the idea is that we need more realistic damage and I agree. I'm a good driver and avoid contact at all costs, even if it means me going off into the gravel, or wall; my mistake, I own it and try not to collect others (even AI) into my mistake. That said, once I hit that wall or object, I expect visible and mechanical damage. I hope the damage model is improved over time.
     
  4. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Well-Known Member

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    Giving it a tiny bit of thought, it seems to me that the only games that model damage very well are usually aimed at multi-platform sales, and more often than not have a Codemasters link somewhere. (I don't consider BeamNG to be a game......)

    Either that, or I don't crash very often and so never notice it. And that is so out there even Mulder would give up on it!

    Just a randomish thought.
     
  5. Cuba

    Cuba Member

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    As long as a sim = as close to reality as possible, we are all happy.
     
  6. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    are you saying you never get any visible or actual damage ?

    i get it , in the sense of front end bent up and engine dead

    ok all the other aspects id love to see ..like
    steering/ bent arm/ dead power steering
    front and rear wheels ,broken top link /suspension
    overheating
    slipping clutch
    Andi
     
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  7. Cuba

    Cuba Member

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    @Andi Goodwin I really have to slam into something hard to get visual damage (from cockpit view) or mechanical damage. I did have the hood pop off once, but I really tried hard to make that happen. I definitely want to see more (realistic) damage visually and feel it like you mention above.
     
  8. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member

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    Sorry mate, I think you have misinterpreted my post. I put the concept that there's nothing stopping a player from using collisions to their advantage as a demonstration of the shortcomings of the current damage model, not as an illustration of my driving style. I try to treat AI as real in any racing sim, but it's pretty immersion breaking when neither the AI nor myself pay the price for any big mistakes, other than losing a few positions.

    Anyway I'll repeat my assertion that while there is some sort visual and mechanical damage modelling, you generally have to try very very hard to bring it up to noticeable levels, so a simple multiplier might be a way to make a few people happier without having to fundamentally overhaul the collision damage modelling code.
     
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  9. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    If you just brush the wall coming out of the final turn at Nosring and I mean tap yer door handle the motor explodes!
    Driving the F3 at Silverstone the other day and it hopped out of gear going over a bump on the straight, gearbox exploded!
    Large grid race at the Nords, plenty of jostling for position, touched car in front (other driver didn't even notice it was that slight) both engine & gearbox explode! :confused: I want what you got! :p
     
  10. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    I've said elsewhere, I was doing head on crashes against the AI the other day and neither them nor I suffered from a wrecked car, all I got was engine damage and basic body work damage - the latter being more than in other Sims it had to be said!. (McLaren and other GT3).

    I also race against the AI as if they're human, but I need to have the fear factor that a big shunt could wreck my race. Otherwise it loses a lot of immersion value for me.
     
  11. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Well-Known Member

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    TPW - No offense intended from my post - I did wink!;)

    In principle, I agree with everything you said, and was just trying to offer a counter argument/strategy.

    I loved the Test Drive Unlimited games but their lack of consequences for driving like an arse left me feeling hollow. When you drive $500,000 of car, you should feel like you don't want to prang it!
    The first Gran Turismo, there were tracks (mostly street circuits) where banging off the walls WAS the fastest way around. An early F1 game on the Playstation 1, the first thing I did at Monaco was slam the front wing off, gaining 3 or 4 seconds a lap. Crazy.

    So good damage modelling would be appreciated.
    On a more serious game, like this one, where I aim for perfection every lap, every corner, the consequences of a mistake are already there.
    And I still believe a 'softer' approach to damage is partially to alleviate the frustration of being slammed by poor driving decisions, AI or Human.
     
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  12. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Well-Known Member

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    That's about as crazy a post as I ever saw! :)
    [​IMG]

    Thank god my wife is far sighted!
     
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