Player rankings and licensing - what would you like, what does S3 have planned?

I posted this over on the Racedepartment forums in the R3E section, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of any real "community discussion" going on there, so I hope there's a bit more "community" here, as a vital and thriving "community" is essential for something like R3E to survive and grow.

Anyway, I hope this will gain a little more traction, and generate some healthy discussion over here:

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From the end of year blog, we learned the following is in the works:

This really caught my attention because if/when this is implemented, R3E will emerge as a true alternative / competitor to iRacing.

That said, I'd love to hear more about what S3 has in mind with regard to player rankings in particular, and to a lesser degree, the type of licensing system that they have in mind.

Player rankings is something neat that iRacing does fairly well . . . up to a point. If you're not familiar with how things work in iRacing, when you participate in official races, you earn iRating (iR), which is determined by your finishing position in the field, with the amount earned being based on the aggregate iRatings of all other drivers participating in that specific event. Essentially, if you finish in the top-5, you're probably going to gain iRating, and if you finish out of the top-5 or in the bottom half of the field, you will lose iRating. Everyone starts off with a given iRating when they join (all new members start off with an iRating of 1350, I believe).

There are two "flavors" of iRating (iR): Road, and oval. Participation in road events affect your road iR, and participation in oval events affects your oval iR.

Beyond that, iRacing also has a safety ranking system -- when participating in official events (which includes qualifying for official races, the races themselves, and official solo time trials), you also earn or gain Safety Rating (SR) based on things like car contact, object contact, and off-track "events." Your Safety Rating is a reflection of your accumulated on-track events over time, based on the number of corners completed (number of corners are measured, not number of laps, so a lap at a track like Nordschleife is more "valuable" SR-wise than a lap at Lime Rock Park, for example).

Drive sloppy with a fair number of off-track excursions and contact with walls, barriers, and other cars, and your Safety Rating will drop, with the idea being that people with lower Safety Ratings will be less "safe" to be around, while those with higher Safety Ratings will be those drivers who have fewer off-tracks and who experience less car and object contact -- fairly straightforward.

iRacing then uses this Safety Rating (SR) as the basis for license levels -- you have to complete a minimum number of official events (qualifying sessions, races, or time trials -- typically 4 races or 4 time trials, for example) at a level HIGHER than your current license level, AND you have to have a high enough Safety Rating to earn a license level promotion (e.g., your license level must be above a 3.0 to qualify for promotion once you have completed the minimum requirements). This also works to a degree, but it also makes license levels and promotions a bit less meaningful, with the sole focus being on how relatively "safe" you are, and not necessarily being a direct reflection of how proficient you are at any given car/track, for example.

I have frequently been very critical (and vocal) regarding iRacing's rating system (iRating) because I feel that it's not granular enough, given all the different type of cars available -- I feel like how well you perform in one car should not affect your rating in another car, and therefore I feel that there should be individual vehicle ratings. If an overall rating would be desirable, then that should be an aggregate number that is based on the combination of all your individual vehicle ratings, for example.

So, from my perspective, if S3 is just planning on implementing a single driver rating based on your aggregate performance across all vehicles, that will be a bit disappointing to me.

Similarly, from a licensing perspective, I would love to see S3 be innovative and find some way to require users to complete certain specified "challenges," for example, in order to become eligible for license promotions. An example of what could be done would be to complete "x" number of practice laps at a given track with a specific car before you would be eligible ("licensed") to join official races at that venue with that specific car. This would ensure that everyone present on official servers would at least have SOME level of experience in that car/track combo before they would be allowed to turn a wheel in official competition in that car at that track.

This might seem harsh, but in an organized online "pay-to-play" environment, it would be nice to know that your fellow racers have at least SOME familiarity with the car and track they will be using alongside you -- and that's the kind of thing that makes licensing meaningful in this kind of environment, IMO.

So, in a nutshell, that's my initial thoughts -- anybody else given this much thought yet?

 

Might be an idea to see what S3 has planned first. I mean, discussion is all very well, but if S3 have stated they'll be introducing a system there's a pretty fair chance they already have a system in mind.

 

I kinda agree with CheerfullyInsane on this one, with S3 sounding very close to deployment, fancy it's more a case of wait and see, then we can all moan like the bitches we are when the things we want aren't present or of course bow to their ingenuity!

 

Just because

 

If S3E can get the likes of JBodin (3 posts above) on board, they have already gone a long way towards pulling at least some of the rug out from under iRacing.
He is a pillar of their community and his help guides are exceptionally useful.

Welcome to this forum, Mr Bodin.
I hope we get iR per car, just because you want it.

Now if we can just get Pickford and Perry2 over here, we're set.



Edit - I hope they get rid of 1X for going off track!

 

Haven't we learned a thing yet about the "wait and see" approach -- therein lies the path to things like Brexit and Trump, eh?



Plus, a little healthy discussion might help S3 to determine if they're on the right track, and it could help give them ideas as they polish their final implementation for roll-out. The way I see it, it's better to provide input as early as possible to help the developers determine if there's anything they'd like to tweak before everything is finalized.

Also, maybe a little discussion here might prompt S3 to give us a sneak peek at what they have in mind.

 

LOL! Thanks for the warm welcome, Mr_Mints_Taboo! I've always felt like it's up to the members themselves at iRacing to make the "community" what THEY want it to be, so I've always tried to make the Rookie ranks what I WISHED I had found when I first joined the service. Weekly track intros, rookie guides, and such just help new members become active participants much more quickly while encouraging more participation, in both the forums AND on-track. I hope that R3E eventually evolves into having as active a community as what iRacing currently enjoys . . . and I'd be more than happy to help build those communities!

I'd LOVE to see a safety rating system that did a MUCH better job of calculating off-tracks -- iRacing's "1x" penalty for off-tracks is fairly ridiculous. Back in my GPL league days, we assumed that if you still had 2 tires on the track surface (including kerbs) you were STILL "on-track," but if you dropped THREE tires off-track, that was an "off" . . . and I think a system like that would be better than iRacing's current 1x implementation. Hopefully S3 will deliver something that improves upon what iRacing implemented.

 

The great thing about a democracy, let the people decide and thats what they did Im very happy with Brexit and cant wait for article 50 to be signed and sorted, the sooner this country has full control over this country the better.


Lol, you made two great posts but all i could pick out to answer or reply to was that
Sorry

 

Mr. Bodin welcome to the forums and thank you again for your wonderful brake mod for pedals!! I love mine and wouldn't get rid of it ever!!

 

Except we don't know what we're discussing yet.
Take the 1x for off-tracks for example. You're assuming that there actually is a penalty for going off-track, it might be a system dependant solely on car-contact since there's already a system in place for off-tracks.
See what I mean?
It's like discussing which liveries should be included before knowing whether the car is actually going to get into the game in the first place.

I mean, by all means have at it if that's your wish.
But a penalty-system is going to be integrated into player-rankings, which will be integrated into the web back-end, which will be integrated into whatever Esport thing they have planned, and so on.
Given the size of the team, they're highly unlikely to change anything in their initial pass before testing it, no matter the amount of discussion, not to mention that we already know from earlier updates that S3 does not necessarily call the shots.
So all I'm saying is let's wait and see what they come up with before we start re-inventing the wheel.

 

That's one way to look at it -- unless, of course, it's more about trying to generate healthy speculation on a discussion board in order to build a sense of involvement to help form a more thriving and interconnected community than it is about trying to determine if a paint rub should be a 1x or a 2x?

But, hey -- what do I know?

 

Whatever S3 come up with, damned sure all will not be pleased as we all have different expectations and needs but speculating on something we have no idea about (apart from the odd comment in the past) I personally can't see who this helps. The Devs had some input on this way back when it was first mentioned and the pluses and minuses of individual systems were picked apart by this very forum, all a bit out of my depth at the time as I was unfamiliar with each system (brushed up on it a bit more now). I believe whatever system S3 are adopting or adapting is imminent (soon™) so asking for input on an unknown maybe better delayed until we can bitch about a known. There is a thread somewhere from way back when that goes into this in some detail, now where, I have no idea, Bubbles will probably know where, Bubbles knows everything!

 

I'm in the "wait and see" camp, S3 have their vision and by now it should be pretty far a long so anything else we write is pure speculation and a host of "what I would like..." posts. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I prefer to wait and see what comes out then discuss in more detail, after all S3 can't and probably won't change much at this late stage. Whatever happens it will be interesting to see how it works and how different it is to iRacings model, it sorta goes without saying its about time another Developer tried to break the stranglegold that iRacing have in this department.

One thing this Sim needs is the fundamental basics of a 'Racing Sim' to help it grow alongside the Rating & License System, there's little things "missing" (and one HUGE one!) that would go a long way to improving the experience overall. These days with so many Sims on the market, people are expecting more of a complete package than one that has a few good areas.

 

Agreed! That's what's got my interest piqued -- I'm really curious to see which route S3 takes: Copy/mimic the existing systems used by iRacing to go head-to-head with them without reinventing the wheel or even really improving on what iRacing does, or if they're looking to come up with some type of adaptation that adds more structure to their "free-to-play" model without getting quite as serious as the type of system iRacing use, or if they've studied iRacing's successes and shortcomings and come up with something that they feels will result in a better overall product.

If their goal is to just add additional "objectives" to provide for an engaging gaming-type aspect to their overall service, that's great, and that does attract customers, but if their goal is to go toe-to-toe with iRacing, then that would represent a different level of effort that would really appeal to a lot of iRacing customers who are there simply because it's the only game (of its kind) in town in terms of organized, online racing services.

 

Thanks for the heads-up -- I'll do some searching myself!

 

Honestly, I'm extremely excited about what S3 has in the works -- I've been very active with iRacing since 2009, so I think any kind of competition will be good for everyone, and S3's announcement has me very geeked.

When it comes down to it, though, I'm also as interested in hearing what existing R3E folks aIre interested in -- I'd like to know what potential aspects of this idea appeal to you existing and more "long-time" R3E members, and what is potentially unappealing.

I think those of you who HAVEN'T participated in an organized pay-to-play service like iRacing may not have any idea how important the "community" aspect will become when more organized "official" multiplayer competitions come on the scene here -- and to that end, things like ratings systems and licensing systems go hand-in-hand with that organized structure.

I've been VERY involved with helping organize, grown, and buiold various official series and "communities" over at iRacing -- over time I've served as the de facto "community organizer" for several different series (the MX-5 Rookie Cup series, the Advanced Rookie iRacing Production Car Challenge series, the Jetta TDI Cup series and the Grand Touring Cup series, the Spec Racer Ford Challenge series and the Radical Racing Challenge series (both of which I helped make possible by organizing the interested players and convincing iRacing that the series could be viable as stand-alone offerings), the Prototype/GT Challenge series, the Mustang Challenge series, etc.), so I have a pretty good handle on what all of this could lead to in terms of how it will impact S3's "racing communities." Ultimately, the "communities" that spring up around the official organized competitions can become a very thriving and profitable aspect for S3 if things develop along the same lines as how they've developed within the iRacing service -- forging bonds of friendship among fellow racers, sharing setups, helping new drivers to acclimate, people "rising to the top" as community leaders by sharing tutorial videos and such . . . all of these things will become more prominent aspects of the R3E "service" than they are now. Thriving communities built around the official competition aspects will help attract new players, which will encourage greater participation and more purchases over time -- and this kind of stuff will affect S3's bottom line . . . something I'm sure they're well aware of.

If you've ever participated in leagues, think along those lines, but with a more "public" aspect -- the official series will become like unto public leagues, and people who don't want to be "limited" to joining specific leagues and racing at specific times will gravitate towards the official online series -- this is the big draw at iRacing; leagues are a part of the mix, as are "one-off" hosted racing sessions, but the ranking structure and license structure exists solely to support the official open online multiplayer competition aspect, and I suspect that's the way it will work with R3E once S3 rolls-out what they're currently working on.

Hearing that people prefer to "wait-and-see" is fine, but to some degree that saddens me because I'd like to see more people getting excited about this, and there doesn't really seem to be much interest or excitement that I can see. The general "wait-and-see" approach also tells me that folks in that category either aren't all that interested in the organized "official" multiplayer aspect that S3 will be delivering in the near future, or it tells me that folks really have no idea of the type of impact this may have for S3 and R3E. This is mainly why I'd like to hear what folks would like to see emerge -- because I'm very interested in hearing how people think/hope this will affect their overall R3E experience, and their interest in the sim, and I'd also like to help drum up some excitement about what's in store . . . I'm excited as heck, and I'd like to help get others as excited and interested as well.

 

Just wanted to say i am excited.
Thats all keep on going xD

I would like to see oficial races implemented quickly though. No reason not to exist right now. And its free data for s3. Win - win situation.

 

I think you may want to switch to decaf.

I can only speak for myself and not the rest of the S3 forums (or the RaceDepartment forum for that matter), and in my case it's not that I'm not interested. Trust me, my interest is very piqued.
But right now I don't have much to be excited about. We know nothing about when it'll be implemented, how it'll be implemented, whether it'll be a separate thing from the R3E base-game which might lead to a subscription of some sort, etc. etc.
So without any basic information, asking me to get excited right now is like asking me to get hyped for my 2018 Christmas present.
Who knows, it may turn out be a colossal c*ck-up. I personally doubt that, but you never know.
So let's just see what we get, before we start hyper-ventilating, shall we?

 

But we have no idea what to get excited or dismayed about, now if we had an inkling of what was arriving then no doubt these pages would be full of debate but second guessing is a mugs game and over here we're bone china cups with a nice gold leaf rim!

 

Ratings per series sounds like an interesting idea, although I'm very much in the casual gamer camp so take my opinions with a pinch of salt. I just hope whatever they introduce gets marketed and becomes popular coz ratings won't mean much without players. I dare say many noobs are a bit like me and stick to the safety of the hotlap comps coz they're *cough*scared*cough* of unintentionally causing havoc in races with others ;( And also, community is very important to a games success these days IMO. Look at the non-racer games out there; it's an absolute troll-storm of people trying to deliberately ruin other peoples fun. I'd like to think ratings might be a step in the right direction for combating that too, in that if all the turds float to the surface, they only have each other to play with/troll. A safety rating system would need to account for that. Like, as a noob, I'm likely to have a few crashes coz of mistakes... But I don't want to end up stuck with all the deliberate wreckers coz of it. Very interested to see what the future holds for R3E.