POLL Why don't you drive multiplayer?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tuborg, Jul 15, 2017.

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Why don't you drive multiplayer?

  1. Actually, multiplayer scares me and/or i don't think i have the skills.

    16 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. I don't like the pace in multiplayer people drive like they were crazy.

    29 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. I have to much tecnical problem in multiplayer. Bad ping, connection loss and so on.

    13 vote(s)
    9.2%
  4. People seem to drive the same tracks and car classes all the time and/or not enough drivers.

    53 vote(s)
    37.3%
  5. I will never drive multiplayer no matter what happening. I prefer to drive against AI on my own.

    16 vote(s)
    11.3%
  6. I will give it a try when we have a online ranking system.

    17 vote(s)
    12.0%
  7. I drive multiplayer and love it...and look forward to the ranking system.

    69 vote(s)
    48.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    I am reading that the less unfair system is to penalize everyone, no exceptions cause it could be sooooooooo difficult to judge a situation. Especially since there will never be any stewards like IRL. Why not the contrary ? No penalties. Racing incident. Case closed. The only thing you lose is your time. Infuriating sometimes equal.

    Never I could have thought to write that one day as I am really concerned in the drivers cleanliness on the track (including during practice session) :rolleyes:
     
  2. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

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    Even if you penalize everyone it's still fair on the long term, the dirty drivers will get involved in crashes more often than clean drivers and so will be more penalized on the long term.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. Tuborg

    Tuborg Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. And the clean drivers will learn to - if they don't already know - how to avoid situations which may lead to accidents.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i agree determining fault is not a good idea. Not only prone to error but unnecessary extra work and upkeep. I prefer the impact force point system. Sure you will get alot of points if some idiot rams you, but the rammer accumulate points exponetially vs typical racing "trading paint" incidents which IMO should not be judged as harshly, and can easily be detected by the impact force (or lack thereof)
     
  5. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    I would agree with offtrack and loss of control incidents but not convinced yet regarding collisions. Unless it is possible to introduce some telemetry data analysis in the algorithm...
     
  6. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm thinking about small touches. For example in eSports WTCC races tiny touches happens often, and it shouldn't penalize players unless it become "too much" or "unfair", and that's the hard part for the developers to implement this concepts. ^^
     
  7. Case

    Case Well-Known Member

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    iRacing does differentiate between a light tap and more serious contact.
     
  8. Cheeseman

    Cheeseman Well-Known Member

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    And so? I do not care as long as the AI drives well which R3E AI is pretty damn amazing. Better than most humans.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Gopher04

    Gopher04 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the iRacing model is, any form of contact is seen as a penalty, so you can't have body rubbing or any form of contact, also it can't distinguish between the innocent and the at fault party, so if you get hit from the rear you will get punished as well...but to some extent their system does work for better cleaner driving, but it also does cause problems as well, from people dropping out of races for receiving penalties for doing nothing, and even road rage for for the same reason...and so on..
     
  10. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    Agree. iR is eventually too punitive with collisions. Ok all players involved are first SR penalized, then they get aero and or mechanical damages that could minimize their chance to make a good and consistent race. It is maybe good enough? But no, they lose eventually track position that could carry iRating loss. Especially penalizing everyone in the same way, not convinced that everyone learns for his supposed mistake...

    I could understand that on the long term a guy who farms all week long with iR won't lose much, but a driver who can only register for a few races, it's only frustration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  11. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Wear headphones, volume maxed out and believe it or not the real world just gets on with it without you! ;)
     
  12. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    You're not a bad driver.
    (Well, you might be, I don't know. But let's assume that you're not. :D )
    And yes, it's unfair that you get penalized by some moron with an attitude.

    But let's take the same situation, T1 at Spa. This time you're hit not by a Turn one Hero, but by someone who simply has a different braking-point than you, and it takes him by surprise. Or maybe he's caught in the grid, and has nowhere to go.
    Is it still his fault? How do you judge that without having a steward interpreting each and every situation?
    Granted, you could have a rule that states that any collision is always the fault of the rear-most car, but human nature being what it is, that will inevitably lead to people brake-checking their opponents.

    The whole point of a 'no-fault' system such as iRacing, is that it doesn't help any one driver in any given situation.
    But it influences everybody to take more care.
    So the next time the both of you are going into T1 at Spa again, he may choose to stay a bit further back, or you may choose to take a tighter line to avoid a possible collision.
    And yes, there are professional wreckers out there who couldn't care less about penalties. But they're going to ignore the rules no matter what system is put in place.

    The 'no-fault' system isn't (ironically) without fault though.
    First of all, it's machine-like and in any specific situation someone is bound to feel unfairly treated.
    Second, when taken to it's extreme, it can dissuade people from racing as hard as they could, in order to protect their ranking.
    But without having someone to sit down and figure out some seriously complex algorithms that take everything into account, it's IMO the best option out there.
    Then again, I'm not particularly bright, so what the hell do I know? :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    Sorry still not convinced :D ;) But it seems I am the only one :D If the system can't be 99,99% fair, better one guilty ''free'' than one innocent blamed more. Anyway all is said from my side. Let's see what will come, everybody's still free not to play if it doesn't seem appropriate :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Case

    Case Well-Known Member

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    The goal is to create an environment where drivers are more careful and mindful of others. If there's no one punished in case of an incident, there's no incentive to drive more carefully - you know you'll get out of the possible incident scot-free, so why should you care?
     
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  15. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    If i have read carefully the S397 july roadmap, they plan yet to get rid of the "safety rating" as we know in iR for example, introducing time penalties. Also interested in the "overall" percentage rating they have announced for their license model. I am really hopeful with this first reading. Hoping S3 devs could provide an innovative and relevant system as well :)
     
  16. Dirk Bachmann

    Dirk Bachmann Well-Known Member

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    Apr 9, 2017
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    +48 / 0 / -0
    Got a Server running yesterday evening.GT3´s ,20min Race.
    Really good races, ok first two laps as usual with some incidents , but overall fair and clean races.
    The only dissapointments for me are the disonnects after a spin or a crash.
    So if somebody want to try the first steps in Multiplayer races - the most important thing - stay out of trouble as much as possible, drive the whole race and you would have fun.
    Let the others room on the track if you´re on a battle with them....
    Do it! :)

    And Special greetings - always a pleasure to race with (against) the ;) K-Pax Mclaren :)
     
  17. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

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    I did a race on your server and there was serious lag issues. Cars disappearing and blinking, sometimes I was alone in the race, all opponents was in the void and suddenly I was superposed with another car... That's probably why so many people disconnected in the first lap, and it worked better with less people. I avoided your server for the rest of night. :(

    You should probably open less slots, depending on your internet bandwidth, especially the upload part (20 slots = 20x data to send).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  18. Dirk Bachmann

    Dirk Bachmann Well-Known Member

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    Thx for the reply!
    I will restrict this for 20 Slots tonight, maybe this works better - lets figure that out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

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    I think the dedicated server should provide a tool to test the bandwidth and limit the maximum number of slots.
    If you have a network manager with a graph you can look after a race how was used your upload bandwidth.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. Timmy L

    Timmy L Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
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    +76 / 0 / -0
    I don't play RaceRoom multiplayer, why?
    Because for me, there is no point.
    As in, no structure.
    Does that make sense?
    I want to see if I am getting better, or worse.
    Over a series of races, like real motorsport.
    One-off races mean nothing, except winning or not.
    Completely respect and understand that some people enjoy one-off races.
    Also completely respect and understand that some do not wish to race online, for example; not wishing to show themselves up. Which is sad, sad that they feel like that. However people do feel like that...
    So something is fundamentally wrong with the whole system of online racing.
    For all it's faults and issues iracing's system of class and rating players, does work.
    There is a place to race for the beginner, and a place to race for the more skilled.
    In the beginner class the shy people soon work out, that everyone there are more or less at the same level, thus they can race each other, and learn to have fun. Accept that there will always be someone faster than you, and you are halfway there.
    It is true to state that some people never get it, and never will, so what.
    Some give up, some just enjoy driving the cars, nothing wrong with that.
    And some will never leave the beginner class.
    If you are competitive, you will take the time to learn the racing line, how the car works, race craft, and perhaps the most important thing to learn is to, respect others.
    Even if the crash into you; everyone makes mistakes..
    Learn from it and move on, without losing the plot.
    One of iracing's tag lines is, 'think of iracing as a racing career'.
    Meaning, you will get better over time, hopefully..
    Iracing is where I race online.
    Not because it has the best cars, not because it has the best looking tracks, because it does not, I race there because of the 'racing structure', it works.
    It is fun to race others, it is fun to see yourself improving.
    For another game to do the same is not easy, the programming behind iracing is extremely complex.
    Yet it could be done, and I sincerely hope that Sector 3 are doing something very close to iracing's system.
    Simply because, in my view, overall RaceRoom has the best cars, has the best tracks, looks great, and feels great. And that sound...
    Iracing needs competition, as it stands now it has none, RaceRoom has everything except the multiplayer structure; if they can get that bit right I and many others will move over, no question.
    Many people stay with iracing simply because there is nothing else.
    Iracing is not perfect, so please do not get me wrong.
    The multiplayer system and class system work well, and that is the attraction for likeminded competing people.
    Iracing has many issues regarding 'netcode', jumping cars, screen stuttering, blinking cars, disappearing cars, being knocked out of a race by a car that never touched you...
    Servers crashing during '24 hour' races...
    And people are paying, monthly, for this 'service'...
    Tyre model; completely wrong.
    The grip falls off when the tyre gets hot...
    Completely the wrong way round.
    Yet we put up with it, because there is nowhere else to go.
    Yet..
    If RaceRoom can get a multiplayer system off the ground and in game, well, you know the answer...
    Iracing also has a league division system in place, like football.
    Do well, you move up, and vice verse if you do not.
    A trick RaceRoom could do, is offer small cash/credit prizes for the top 3, in every division.
    Credits for race wins could be worth looking at.
    It will help attract new players, and attract iracing players.
    Iracing offers nothing to winners.
    However, they are testing giving credits to winners in two, just two, race series.
    The heavily advertised £10,000 world champion thing, is a pipe dream to most players..
    The chance to win a race or league at your level, would be a very appreciated opportunity to players.
    Good for return customers.
    ESports is the buzzword at this moment in time.
    Nice cool word for multiplayer...
    Forza 7 is doing it, Project Cars 2 is doing it, iracing does it, RFactor 2 is looking at it...
    RaceRoom needs to be doing very soon...
    Everything is in place to do it...
    Takes a lot for me to get excited, however I am excited at the thought of RaceRoom competing and beating iracing.
    Because it can be done.
    Sorry for the long post, no other way of doing it..

    Quick footnote; I have been unwell, then my wife was unwell, and then my daddy died.
    This is why I have been away from here.
    Not after sympathy, just saying; I am a very open person.
    Daddy lived in Unst, just off Shetland, fine place to live and die; I lived in Shetland for years too.
    Very wet.
    And cold.
    Oh, and windy.
    Have you seen, 'Shaun of the Dead'?
    Yes, well one scene explains the language issues I had up there.
    The scene with the older policemen, the one that had all the weapons stored in his shed.
    Well, some Shetland country people talk like him...
    It took me years to understand people..
    Stayed away from sheds for years too..
     
    • Love it! Love it! x 1