Opinion on new GT3 BOP changes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Dandy Highwayman, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. The Dandy Highwayman

    The Dandy Highwayman Member

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    Haven't driven all vehicles yet but; (all testing so far done at Spa, Bathurst and Road America)

    M6, speed VASTLY improved, much more competitive now, but in my opinion desperately deserves braking improvements. Stops like a boat.

    Nissan GT-R, not sure where the power nerf is meant to be applied, but still hitting same top speed at Spa. Car is still crazy good there.

    Bentley, was already very competitive but under-used, now with added front downforce it's a force to be reckoned with, going to be interesting to see how it plays out when we get it fully dialled in. (Can't seem to stop it bottoming out at Eu Rouge, however, no matter the settings yet)

    Audi LMS, big improvement in speed, car feels much more agile now too, much softer, going to have to throw out my old setups.

    Mercedes AMG, not feeling it, might have just fallen out of practice with it. Feels like it's gained some more understeer though.

    So far, generally good changes, everythings feeling a bit more equal.

    However.. Has the tyre model been updated, or tyre pressures modified? Every car feels slightly different and tyre wear appears to have changed too.

    Feel free to give your own opinions, these are just my initial thoughts first evening in, much more testing to come though.
     
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  2. Reinhard Berger

    Reinhard Berger Member

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    hello highwayman,

    you write this....

    Audi LMS, big improvement in speed, car feels much more agile now too, much softer, going to have to throw out my old setups.

    how much do you think is the audi lms now faster in laptimes?
    i am did wonder why this car get ADD power in BoP, as this car was already one of the fastest GT3 cars in laptimes (not top speed) and was extrem good in fuel need too.

    thanks for testing, as i like to read comment of people which did testing GT3 class

    servus
     
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  3. Robert Wiesenmüller

    Robert Wiesenmüller Esports / Events

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    Fuel consumption was also changed so that advantage should be gone. I think the Audi is around 2 tenths faster now per lap, it recieved a very small addition of horsepower.
     
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  4. AlexBlob

    AlexBlob Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Did anything else happen to the BOP, the note I see does not seem to have any talk of fuel changes? I would love to see a full list of changes in that regard. Apart from that, i agree with the changes that have been listed.
     
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  5. The Dandy Highwayman

    The Dandy Highwayman Member

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    Haven't gotten the most out of it yet @Reinhard Berger , it still has more laptime in it at Spa as i'm still adjusting the setup, doing 2:17:1's with 65l fuel, it's definitely got 2:16:5's in it with me driving, probably a 2:15:XX with a better driver capable of taking advantage of softer suspension and more camber.

    My laptimes at Bathurst dropped to a 2:04:XX on race fuel (public server not leaderboard) but the setup is again not quite there yet.

    So FOR ME, the advantage is more than 2 tenths at the moment, but I wasn't extracting 100% from the car before the BOP adjustment.

    @Robert Wiesenmüller fuel consumption still seems good compared to cars such as the AMG and the Bentley on first impressions, but that's not concrete yet. We mostly run sprint races (30min) but will be practicing for 1 hour races soon and that might make a big difference.

    So far though, I feel the BOP adjustments are definitely positive, though I would love the M6 brakes to be adjusted as they feel particularly poor (but I don't know how they are in real life, so it may be a realism factor).
     
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  6. Reinhard Berger

    Reinhard Berger Member

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    thanks people for answear.

    i did test my own the audi about fuel.
    i had very exactly 3.0 litres in nürburgring (not easy to see in audi, so i did 10 laps testing)
    before patch it was around 2.9 litres, so it got little more fuel, but still very good in fuel.
    and now identical to porsche, as porsche now have 3.0 litres too in nürburgring (before patch it had 2.8 for me), so porsche got a little more fuel too, what is very correct.

    i realy hope that the advantage only 0.2 sec. for audi as audi was before already very fast car.
    for me the car was around 0.2sec. slower as porsche.
    so i hope that porsche did not get a big reduce power, so that both cars very equal now.
    my main rival in a league do drive audi, so i hope now that audi is not to strong, but i fear it, as i saw already a 1.41.0 again in leaderboard in imola, as i think this driver had not 1.41.0 before in audi in leaderboard. (yesterday i did watch, not today actual).
    i am not sure about porsche actual, as it is extrem difficulty to see performance different before and after patch in porsche, i did yesterday a 1.41.9 in a quali session with 15l fuel., the day before yesterday i did 1.41.7 with i. yakubu quali setups., so i do not know if am only was slower or car was 0.2 slower.

    in nürburgring i did not 100% match my racepace too after update, a little slower too, but this can happen, that i did not drive track since any time, but usualy i come quick to my maximal laptimes, so i am still not sure about laptimes in porsceh.

    other then this....i realy hope that any cars which much fuel, did get a fuel reduce need, as the C7 needs so much fuel before patch, this is reason why i did not take this car for a 90m. sesaon, to get jumped in pits from porsche and audis is little frustration, as in 90min. the car loose 10-15sec. in pits to porsche/audi (before patch)

    servus
     
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  7. The Dandy Highwayman

    The Dandy Highwayman Member

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    I think until the top drivers are extracting 100% from each car we won't know the full situation of the changes, but the first impressions are positive so far.

    Don't forget @Reinhard Berger that the Porsche had a slight adjustment to the off throttle oversteer, so you may be losing those 2 tenths there, it might be something you can regain with a simple differential adjustment to regain the previous amount of lift-off oversteer.
     
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  8. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    The absolute amount of effect a slight increase in power has on the laptime is of course dependant on the track you're driving on.

    A track like Bathurst with its very long straights pulls a lot more out of a slight power increase than a Mickey Mouse circuit like Hungaroring or Oschersleben for example. So when any of the developers talk about 2 tenths of a second they most probably mean "in average across a variety of tracks". So please don't nail them down on some given number. ;)
     
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  9. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is a very good point you bring up.

    Believe me, the BOP stuff went through extensive testing not only before these cars were first released, but also in the time since then when these new changes were being made.

    With 19 GT3 cars, and ~40 tracks of all different kinds... finding a perfect balance where no car will dominate on a single track and no car will lag behind likely isnt feasible. Getting all the cars competitive with eachother so any car you pick has a chance at winning over the course of multiple tracks is more so the goal, in my opinion.

    That too isnt the full picture though. Every driver has his/her own driving style, and this means the fastest car for one person isnt going to be the fastest for another person. Then throw in custom setups into the mix, and that is yet another variable where performance will be different.

    Personally, I would say to keep with it to see what you like as a first impression after an hour or so of trying out a couple different cars isnt going to give you the full picture, since getting the absolute most out of a car on any given track takes a considerable amount of time. :)
     
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  10. The Dandy Highwayman

    The Dandy Highwayman Member

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    I'm just trying every car to see how they feel compared to pre patch, as i'd recently run all the cars above at Spa between 2:15:XX and 2:18:XX (BMW.. losing 7 tenths in sector 1 pre patch.. Glad that's fixed).
     
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  11. RampageRacing

    RampageRacing Well-Known Member

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    I see the Camaro lost some weight. Does anyone know the before and after weights. I did not have the weight from before the BoP adjustment written down anywhere so I am not sure how much weight they took off. Has anyone one tried it yet to see if it has gained any performance. I am too new to be able to feel a difference and I do not have a bunch of previous lap times to compare.
     
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  12. Reinhard Berger

    Reinhard Berger Member

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    i did test now 4 cars in nürburgring, mclaren650, C7, porsche and new audi.

    all 4 cars are very identical in fuel need, all have very exactly 3.0 litres in this track, so this is great news, as i past the C7 was much disadvantaged in pitstop time against cars like porsche and audi.
    i do not know, but i have feeling, that raceroom did balanced now all cars to have similar fuelneed.
    in past for example in nürburgring the porsche had 2.8 litres and the C7 had 3.65-3.7 litres, so it was a huge gap.

    this is of course a great balance of performance of sector3 team, thanks for this.

    servus
     
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  13. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not one for taking multiple cars out for a couple laps then swapping out, so I've stuck with the Audi R8 for 30 or so laps on several tracks, now I enjoyed the Audi pre patch but it definitely lacked top end speed, which you may or may not have made up through the twisty's, track permitting but post patch I'm finding it far more competitive on the straights, with little if no loss of balance and grip. Early impressions are very positive, nice one S3, it's the fettling that produces the results. Looking forward to trying out the rest of the bunch in the future, Road America is a blast in the Audi, although it's hard to concentrate on the road with such stunning scenery. What a start to 2018!
     
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  14. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    The M6 is quite a bit faster on the straights now but struggles a lot in fast and medium corners now. The reduced downforce also makes it rather unstable through Eau Rouge, I had to add quite a lot of toe in at the rear to not spin every time I pass through there. And due to the higher topspeed and the lower cornering speed, you have to brake even earlier then before. And as mentioned before already, braking is not one of the M6's strengths anyway. Summary: I don't see the laptimes of the M6 to change noticeable after this BoP. What the lord giveth down the straights, he taketh around the corners... :cool:

    One question to @Alex Hodgkinson: I saw that in the setup screen the rearwing setting changed from clicks to degrees. Are the effective min and max values still the same as before? Because at the Audi I can bring the rearwing down to 0° o_O while at the M6 the lowest value is 7°.
     
  15. sbXII

    sbXII Active Member

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    Yeah, as a BMW driver the price was high for a bit more topspeed. Now you lose a lot of time in the corners.
    I can't understand why they reduced downforce.
    And yes, the brakes are terrible.
     
  16. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    Actual brake power of the M6 is on par with the other cars. It's because it's one of the heaviest cars in class that it takes a while longer to slow down. Best brakes in class belong to the Camaro, but you'd be hard pressed to tell!

    Wing settings, although it may be confusing and will be resolved, you can consider the 7° of the M6 wing to be equal to 0.
     
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  17. The Dandy Highwayman

    The Dandy Highwayman Member

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    Weight 1300, from my experience stops slower than the AMG GT3 (1320), and way slower than the R8 (1340), and gets destroyed by the C7 i9n braking zones (1290)..
     
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  18. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    We'll have to double check that those displayed weights are correct
     
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  19. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    Just tried to find some data on the interwebs...

    BMW is a funny company, they state on their website that the M6 GT3 weighs "below 1.300 kg (without driver)". This could mean anything to be honest... :D

    On the Audi customer sports website I found this PDF that, if you scroll down a lot, states that the Audi R8 LMS 2017 weighs 1.225 kg.

    According to Mercedes/AMG the AMG GT3 weighs 1.285 kg.

    The C7 weighs 1.240 kg, according to Callaway.

    Bentley is just as funny as BMW...<1.300 kg...whatever this is supposed to mean... :p

    The page about the Porsche 911 GT3 R contains a link to a PDF that states that this car weighs 1.220 kg - depending on BoP.

    And I think the last fat part might be a problem if you want to know the weight of these cars. Weight is always a part of BoP. So the weight of the base car is - in many cases - not the weight of the car that races on a track. And we also need to BoP the cars in RR too, as you can see. So the cars in RR will most probably not all have their real counterpart's base weight but something according to RR-BoP. And in the special case of the M6 GT3 we do not even know the exact base weight of the real car. I doubt that the car weighs below 1.250 kg, but what could "below 1.300 kg" actually mean?

    Sometimes accuracy can be a bit** if you want it! :cool:
     
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  20. Metalogic

    Metalogic Well-Known Member

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    How is the Porsche 911 GT3 now following the BOP changes? I've not had chance the drive it since the update, but it sounds like it's been nerfed:

    "Porsche GT3R - Reduced power"

    Is it still competitive and fun to drive?