Beginner questions about TCS, ABS and stability control

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mads Grand Egsgaard, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Mads Grand Egsgaard

    Mads Grand Egsgaard New Member

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    Hi
    I just started playing Raceroom a week ago and I finally have gotten my gamepad set up in a way I can live with. I haven't tried online because I wanted consistent control of the car first. I can now drive consistently around Sepang North in an Aquila CR1 around 1m 8.0s (best 1m 7.3s) with Stock setup, Stability control on low, TSC off, ABS off and countersteer off, but with automatic gears. I was pretty happy about that and decided it was time to switch stability control completely off... But that was too much for me. So for now, I have settled for stability control off, but with factory TC on and it seems like I will be able to get the hang of it even though I really haven't yet. Now the question for me is what should I be aiming for in terms of driving aids? No aids at all? or some aids? and in that case, which aids should I choose given that I'm racing with a gamepad? What does it generally require to enter races?
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  2. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    A lot of online servers use "Get Real" mode, which will mean that most driving assists will be disabled completely. The exception is TC and ABS. They default to "factory" in Get Real mode. What that means is that if the car has TC/ABS in real life, it will be active in the sim too. In that case it is entirely up to you whether or not to use them. It's down to whatever you feel comfortable with.

    I think both TC and ABS can be helpful on gamepad since they can help make up for the less precise control you have when compared to a set of pedals. But as mentioned, you'd probably be doing yourself a favour getting used to having no assists at all since that is likely to be the most common online.
     
  3. Mads Grand Egsgaard

    Mads Grand Egsgaard New Member

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    I was wondering what "factory" meant, but that makes sense. Can I drive with auto gears in get real mode?
     
  4. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure you can, yes.
    Granted, I've never tried, but I know auto-clutch is allowed so I don't think the gearbox set-up is considered an aid as such.
    Easy way to check. Log onto a server with GetReal difficulty, and see if it allows auto-gears. You won't even have to exit the pits to find out.
     
  5. Mads Grand Egsgaard

    Mads Grand Egsgaard New Member

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    Ok, I'll just have to go and have a look. For now I rather leave the gears out and learn how to drive with the only factory TC on. I appreciate the answers
     
  6. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    You can always use automatic transmission, whichever game mode and difficulty you chose, it is indeed not considered a driving aid. I'd also just go with the Get Real preset, i.e. ABS and TC factory, everything else off. This will give you the best, most realistic experience.

    I would recommend getting used to manual shifting tho, not only for added realism but first and foremost increased control. Especially with a gamepad you want to avoid unsettling the car at all cost and being able to delay a shift can give you an advantage in this area.
     
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  7. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    Transmission type can be set server-side to force people into using manual or automatic, but they would have to set it to Custom difficulty to do so. So if the server says Get Real, then you will be able to choose which you use yourself. I'd say that's probably the most common.
     
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  8. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    Do traction control and stability control work in the same way, that is by applying brake impulses in case a driven wheel starts to spin (traction control) or the car starts to spin (stability control)?
    Or does traction control work by cutting power (don´t ask me how :D) to the spinning wheel?
     
  9. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure traction control works by cutting the power to spinning wheels. I'd guess stability control would be a combination of controlling the power and braking.
     
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  10. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    Traction control works by cutting power at the engine.
    Stability control uses the brakes on individual wheels to make the car go where the steering wheel is pointing.
     
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  11. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! So to sum it up, to learn how to drive without assists, first thing would be to turn off stability control (so you have to handle instabilities yourself and experience the effect of wheelspin) and then step by step traction control (to not cause wheelspin anymore)?
     
  12. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    For the artificial aid, like stability control, spin recovery, brake assits, I would suggest to turn them off, even if you're starting with simracing. The problem with them is that they will teach you bad habbits, which then become very hard to unlearn.

    As for the aids that are present in real cars - traction control and ABS, depends on what you want to be racing. For cars that have them IRL (like GT3s), I see no reason to throwing these tools out of the toolbox. Rather learn how they affect the behaviour of the car (i.e. too much tcs may induce on throttle understeer), and learn how to use and chagne them in races to acheive what your current goal is. Are you maintaining position, are you pushing? etc.

    If you want to race series that don't have them IRL, then I would suggest starting with something low powered, like the NSU TTS. These cars are imho great for learning the basics, as spins are usually manageable , and don't end in a crash. But they usually cost quite a lot of time, because momentum preservation is realy important for these car, as they take ages to get up to speed.
     
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  13. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that some of the cars (2018 BMW M6 GT3 for instance) even have sounds when the traction control is imployed (sounds like driving over a curb). Now how can that knowledge help me? Also I don´t exactly understand what the % of traction control means. Why are the presets something like 25/20/15/10/5/0 percent and not like one would assume 100/80/65/50/35/15 or abouts for an even spread between 100 and 0?
     
  14. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    When you hear that sound you know TC is preventing the wheels spinning. Back off the throttle until the noise stops, and you have roughly the amount of throttle you can apply without spinning the wheels up. So, try to drive without that sound happening and you'll get an idea of how to control the throttle. Then back the TC off bit by bit until you're at 0%.

    Because 100% would be overkill in just about all cars, there's never a need to have TC set that high. The more powerful the car the easier it is to spin the wheels, so the more TC will potentially be required. So cars like the X-17 will range from say 75% downwards, whereas something like the BMW 235i will range much lower, say 35% and lower. (I forget the defaults to be honest.)
     
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  15. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    So traction control will work by electronically closing the throttle to put it simple? So it doesn´t care for which wheel? But how then to understand the percentage of traction control: does it close down the throttle only 25/20/15/10/5 percent?
     
  16. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    I think it's more along the lines of how much wheel spin the TC system will allow. So if you have it set to 100% it will eliminate all wheel spin and make it almost impossible to lose the rear under acceleration. If you have it on 20% it will help prevent sudden losses of traction up to a point, but if you hammer the throttle too hard too soon you will still lose the rear quite easily.

    To be honest, I think the best bet is to just learn how to control the throttle without the aid of TC right from the start. Most of the powerful cars in R3E don't even have it available, so by relying on it you are hampering your ability to drive them. You'll be a much better driver with much smoother throttle control if you ignore TC altogether.
     
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  17. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Also don't get to focused on numbers, sounds, dashboard indications. Judge it by the feel of the car. Is the car handling as you like? Is the throttle response good? Do you feel getting bog down during acceleration, or do you have problem controlling the rear of the car?

    Experiment, try to lower it and see how the car is behaving. And find behavior that is to your liking. Setting to a "correct" number doesn't make sense, because the stability of car changes as fuel gets consumed, and tyres get worn.
     
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  18. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    Did I see this correctly, you get a 15 kg penalty when driving with Traction Control, but with Factory TC not weight bonus when you set it to 0%?
     
  19. Paul Darke

    Paul Darke Moderator Beta tester

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    If the car you are driving does have TC as a factory fitting there is no penalty regardless of the % you use.
     
  20. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    He wants a bonus for driving without tc even if the real car would have it ;)
     
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