Racing against AI

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alex Hodgkinson, Jul 11, 2018.

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Which AI is the best to race against?

  1. GTR3

    9 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. WTCC 16/17

    2 vote(s)
    5.6%
  3. DTM 15/16

    6 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. GTO

    1 vote(s)
    2.8%
  5. Group 5

    3 vote(s)
    8.3%
  6. DTM 92

    6 vote(s)
    16.7%
  7. Porsche Cup

    1 vote(s)
    2.8%
  8. BMW M235I Racing Cup

    4 vote(s)
    11.1%
  9. FR-X-17

    1 vote(s)
    2.8%
  10. Other

    3 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I withhold a vote on the original question, because giving a valid reply would demand that one indeed knows intimately all AI behaviours in different car classes. All I dare say and am quite certain of, is that there are differences of AI's behaviour in different classes indeed. And since that impression is fresh, the new GT1 class seems to be a bot more aciton-related than others.

    I like them to make mistakes occasionally, and to pick up fights and rumbles amongst their own likes.
     
  2. MrBones22

    MrBones22 Member

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    I've had some amazing races with AI at 105% across various classes. More recently I've tried the GT1 class (since the update) and really had great battles with the AI, where the AI is fighting back after I make a pass, and surprising me with overtakes where I didn't think I left enough room to be passed. I've raced a majority of GT3 races and have had the occasional first lap contact and spin that happens constantly in real life racing, and some bumping etc, but nothing over the top. As for AI behavior around a crash, if anything I've seen overly cautious avoidance. Of course, there is a very occasional odd AI action, but I've experienced the same type of glitches in pretty much all racing games / sims I've played.
     
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  3. Olijke Poffer

    Olijke Poffer Active Member

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    Only flaw with the AI is their braking point. They hit the brakes way to early.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Olijke Poffer

    Olijke Poffer Active Member

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  5. Hygge

    Hygge Member

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    I really hope they would look into ai. In some part it is the best of alla sims. It races, fighting against other ai and is a joy to wattch. But in some areas it's plain stupid. In practice or races it has no awareness of the car in front and just ram ju from behind. Assetto Corsa is the best ai in this area as it has the best spatial awareness so I hope RRE could be just as good in future updates. Assetto Corsa on the other hand has an ai that don't really race you and if you stop at the track it doesn't manage to pass you. So all in all a preferr the RRE ai but it would be perfect if it just didn't do this stupid ramming every now and then.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  6. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    The video on page four of that thread is the final iteration.
    You can do it faster if you edit the xml-file, given that it only takes 4 laps of 'training' assuming you have a decent starting point, most people will find it easier to simply do the laps.

    If you need to find a starting-point, there's this:
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/the-new-adaptive-ai.5013/page-17#post-150322
     
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  7. benoityip

    benoityip Active Member

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    I am amazed at frx17 AI. I used to race in gtr2, not very happy with the AI, but frx17 AI just blew me away. Please look at the following, I swapped with AI position so many times.
     
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  8. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    More exciting than real F1. Nice driving.
     
  9. Loki-D

    Loki-D Member

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    I haven't played all the classes enough recently, but what I have played recently ends up being a tad frustrating, great when their fair though. WTCR I thinks been fixed im yet to try, but like the starts the AI get always a tremendous start, why cant they be random on their starts, like some have poor some good etc. And the first lap they don't seem to suffer from cold tyres brakes. Theyre too fast on some corners that makes me wonder the AI have super grip. As mentioned they just aren't aware of you they just bundle into you.

    Thing is saloon racing has more contact than open wheelers, in RR they use the same amount of contact for every discipline which ends up like almost an arcade racer running something like the Tattuus etc. Another issue is when theres a yellow flag most cars after the incident ending up coming to a complete and utter stop when theres no need, its caused more crashed then I care to remember.

    I do like the AI they defend and attack but their manners is horrendous bordering on EVIL.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  10. Flintenwilly

    Flintenwilly Well-Known Member

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    Having some really nice and quite fair races against new TCR and M1 Procar (Adaptive AI) today. New Porsche Cup is also great, love to see that the AI also struggles with the car (in a realistic way)

    Great example of today: 26 ´19TCR Cars (incl Peugeot and old Alfa) grid on Sachsenring with Adaptive AI, was the first race there with the new TCR, so i was a bit faster than the rest.
    Start was ok (normal reallife TCR Start, chrashfest if it was in F1), drove safe fall on 2nd. Managed to get back, but in lap T1 i was too late on brakes and lost 5 places. So my hunt began.
    To watch the AI battling each other, sneaking in and fight 3 wide on every straight, without crash und unfair AI, just leaving enough space or dont force it - and all is good. Many scenes, you would see in real life, i had in this race. This is just great.

    The thing what bothers me is that they sting in every corner when you leave them half a car space on spots nobody would normally overtake (like Omega on Sachsenring). So if you close the gap, racing is fine.
    I dont have rearending issues, only i tent to bumb on the car in front, because sometimes i forgot that on the last few meters before the corner they got godlike brakes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  11. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    The WTCR cars have launch control, you should use that.
     
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  12. Loki-D

    Loki-D Member

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    Noted....

    But I'm talking about all ai classes their starts are just perfect all the time gets a tad robotic.

    And can I add to what sky bird said please don t just leave them alone, nothings perfect and rr ai is always in need of improving. Please the rose tinted ppl here really should be silenced.
     
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  13. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Nobody here should be silenced as long as they don't break the forum rules. Skybird is one of the users least suspected to have rose tinted views about RR (trust me on that one, I have a list ^^). So please stop these kinds of comments, they help nobody and especially not your cause.

    The AI isn't perfect and I'm still in doubt any game will ever get close to perfection in that department.
    But I think there will come a point in the future when it might reach a state where trying to improve them further will only make things worse overall and at that point we should accept the reality of PC gaming for what it is, an approximation of reality.
    I'm having slight doubts that you've actually tested all classes regarding their starting behaviour. It does differ because there are in fact talent files which make some of the AI stronger and others weaker. Regarding WTCR, as pointed out above, there's launch control and so the AI of course has access to that as well, which indeed makes them start very well across the board, just as that sort of tech does in real life.
     
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  14. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but i don't like this kind of attitude.
     
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  15. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    And I'm on the other side, while the behavior is far for perfect, and requires tuning, it makes R3E the only sims where yellow flags actually serve a purpose.
     
  16. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    Im rather on lokis side on that one. In real racing "dont overtake and slow down" translates to "dont overtake and dont set a new personal best" so its not neccessarily realistic for the ai to slow down massively (unless the track is blocked of course)
     
  17. Loki-D

    Loki-D Member

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    Porsche cup at imola is a yellow flag nightmare. They are always losing it at acque minerale.

    hey but maybe I was wrong about the starts the Porsche cup ai seems reasonable at least, so ill give the sim that.
     
  18. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    @Loki-D Firstly let me say that I am definitely a R3E ai fanboy as I think their ai (even with their faults) are the best in the business at the moment. But in saying that I certainly don't wear "rose tinted glasses". I'll be the first to call out the problems because as a fanboy I want R3E ai to be the absolute best it can be with in the limitations of available technology

    The last two mini-patches for the WTCR 2019 class really showed me that the developers are capable of.
    Upon release; my testing showed that approximately 65% of tracks were unplayable against the ai due to all the car rollovers and spin outs; and I definitely called it out in the forums and posted data to prove my experience.

    These two mini-patches have solved 80% of the problems.
    The devs adjusted the physics of the ai cars
    to make them more like the players cars so that ai can now drive over the same curbs as players car can with out rolling or spinning out.

    However there are still a couple of tracks with the WTCR cars still face problems
    1. On the right hander at Imola acque minerale the cars always go wide and spin on the outside curbs and sometimes awkwardly bounce and loose it on the inside curb.

    2. The same thing still happens at Portimao in turn 1 when the hit the inside curb
    These two tracks highlight the other problem of incorrect ai pathways.
    Basically the ai are driving over a curb or off track where even a human players car would would crash or spin.
    Fix the pathways and I'm sure that will fix the problem.

    Test results from last Night
    Last night I trained ai on 11 circuits by doing 4x 5 lap races
    Out of 11 I found two where the ai pathways caused them to crash.

    upload_2019-7-20_10-1-45.png

    Before yesterdays patch every one of the above tracks had ai problems with the WTCR class so the devs have solved 80% of the problems with that physics update....now they just need to update the ai pathways to solve the problem 100%

    Apart from that I found the ai to be brilliant and I had the best fun I've had in a long time; white knuckle seat of your pants racing no matter where I was in the pack. I had so much fun that even my wife asked me why I had such a big smile on my face when I finally came back in the house LOL
     
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  19. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    As Imola is one of my go-to AI testing tracks (for obvious reasons) this issue is known and being investigated. Same goes for Portimao and other tracks where they are struggling to stay on the track.

    The problem with this issue is that we had the same suspicion as you had, something wrong about the AI pathways but they checked them over and over due to my ongoing complaints and there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the paths.
    To me it appears like the AI might be struggling with the advanced tyre physics Alex has been introducing for all the newer or lately updated classes, which sometimes will make them overshoot the entry, then realise they won't be able to make the turn and try to correct their path mid-turn, which inevitably adds more problems.

    They will keep working on the AI and as things in testing are looking lately I'm positive that they'll eventually be able to fix these issues. But everyone's always welcome to share their findings and report issues, the more data we can provide for the coders the better they can assess the state of the AI.
     
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  20. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    @Christian Göpfert Thanks for that info. You could be right about the tyre model; the interesting thing that these two corners have in common is that they are at the bottom of a hill and the suspension is loaded unevenly across the front so maybe they loose traction on the inside wheel and hence can't stop as expected!