Simracing E-Sports - Opinion Poll

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by HomieFFM, Sep 15, 2019.

Tags:
?

Do you like/follow Simracing E-Sports?

  1. Yes - I follow a lot of races

    13 vote(s)
    17.1%
  2. Neutral - sometimes, but not actively

    30 vote(s)
    39.5%
  3. No - I don't care at all

    33 vote(s)
    43.4%
  1. Robert Wiesenmüller

    Robert Wiesenmüller Esports / Events

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 0 / -0
    The events and MP races are not the problem. The leaderboard competitions are. When you change something mid season that affects all physics - well then you might as well not even try to run a competition at all. All times and efforts before the update are worthless.
    Sure, we could create a whole different branch.
    I am pretty sure that almost every player of the leaderboard competitions also likes to do some multiplayer races for fun, or drive a race against AI every now and then. In the VW competition there were over 10.000 players - I find it hard to believe that they are all Esports die hard fans who would give up the other aspects of RaceRoom.
    When you create a different branch, players have to choose, and I think it would create an even deeper divide - where certain content does not find its way into the "normal" RaceRoom at all, and the Esports competitions have much much less casual players who just drive some time attack for fun. I don't think it's a good idea to split it.

    It's not like we block patches in general. New content will still be released, feature improvements will still be released. This took a long time before Esports, remember the soon™ days. It's not Esports' fault that there hasn't been a patch in general for a while. Just certain, game changing, features that affect handling or physics in general, now will be released in certain patch windows.

    All leagues where we have the freedom to choose the format run with 4 divisions of multiplayer races (+ the Special Events when we have free time). Yes, that's still not every driver, but there is currently so much manual effort involved with the e-mail invitations, server setup and results, that it's not possible to run more. Of course, in Football they have a full system, but they also have different financial and staff resources.
    I think long term the only solution here is an automated system. I support it, but these things are not created over night and there are so many other things that the Sector3 staff is working on, that is requested here, that for the time being, we need to make the best out of our resources.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Ratings:
    +591 / 0 / -0
    Why should they need to give up other Raceroom aspects? When starting Raceroom in steam there could be options like "Raceroom eSports & competitions" and "Raceroom single & multiplayer". You can always choose and don't have to give up any aspect of Raceroom. I don't believe that this would split the player base. If you are going for an eSport event you choose the eSport edition. If you want to play a single player race or normal multiplayer you just choose the other option.
     
  3. Robert Wiesenmüller

    Robert Wiesenmüller Esports / Events

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 0 / -0
    Well, if that affects only the top 120 who qualify for a multiplayer race, I am sure it would be a solution. I could instruct them to change the build.
    But the multiplayer races are not the problem. The problem is, that you cannot change base physics while a time attack is running.
    Going back to the VW competition - how many of those 10.000 players do you think clicked on the nice button in the main menu of RaceRoom with Romain Dumas on it? And enjoyed a free ride on the Nordschleife in a brand new car?
    What if this button said: Join the VW competition - all you have to do is close your game, open steam, right click the launch options, select this branch, wait for the download to finish and then start the Esports-RaceRoom, where there is the real button in the main menu.
    Oh, and you have to do it EVERY TIME you want to play.

    It would completely kill the participation in the time attack competitions and create a big divide, and I think many casual players wouldn't even have the chance to try the competitions then cause they don't go so deep into the topic to read this forum or these kind of instructions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Ratings:
    +402 / 0 / -0
    eSports isn't really my thing. Hell, sports in general isn't really my thing. :D
    (Except the NFL, but that's neither here nor there)
    I'll watch it if it coincidentally pops up on my YT menu, but it's not something I actively look for.

    Sim-racing is just one of those things that are much more fun to do, than to watch.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Cheeseman

    Cheeseman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +265 / 0 / -0
    Why should I? If I want to watch races, I'll watch actual racing events that is available almost every week than see people on plastic rims on stationary chairs.

    I rather watch F1 over esports that had been really boring for me.
     
  6. David Peres

    David Peres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Ratings:
    +96 / 0 / -0
    This past week I've watched some esport competitions from Counter Strike (shooter) and Company of Heroes (strategy). Watching those was very entertaining becouse the skills involved are very apparent to the spectator... professional Counter Strike players have absolutely super-human reflexes that are almost impossible to believe, and Company of Heroes top players impress with really smart strategies. Like I said, the skills involved are apparent to the spectator, and entertaining to watch.

    On simracing esports however, the skill and concentration necessary to perform well are not apparent from a spectator point of view, despite the best effort of the comentators. All you see are a bunch of cars "calmly" (for the most part) going around the track and it doesn't look like something impressive is happening, even tough we know these guys are the best at what they do. I'm not sure how this could be improved, however.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Stickdeath1980

    Stickdeath1980 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2018
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -0
    Esport's For us in AU/NZ very very limited!! We watch alot of Real Life Racing and get behind our team's choose our side's Esport's racing wise is sorry to say iracing's Area damage model,Driver swap's,professional exciting commentary,Replay system to look at past incidents,Night and Day,Tyre Model (sort of) lol.
    I support Raceroom 100% awsome community but its Still young even though it's old and the game engine is old itself what 3 DX's old when you guys change to a new DX or what ever you guys will bring in alot more viewer's& Esport's will come knocking so for me watching Racerrom Esport's sorry to say not very exciting at all to watch
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Heath

    Heath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Ratings:
    +136 / 0 / -0
    @Robert Wiesenmüller I do understand that this would take some work but would it be possible in the future that the viewer watching an Esports event could get an option to select a particular car or view that they themselves wanted to watch . Whilst viewing a stream . Would create more interest imo. :D (fyi remember I didn't say it would be easy . But do able ...)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. anighther

    anighther New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    i like the idea of simracing multiplayer games with ranking ladder but can they compete with MOBA esports? i think not
     
  10. Robert Wiesenmüller

    Robert Wiesenmüller Esports / Events

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 0 / -0
    Thanks guys for the feedback so far and keep it coming! I appreciate it that it's honest and sometimes harsh. I will also be honest and harsh as usual.

    There are a few things, I would love to change, but of course our options are limited. This is not a massive operation, most leagues are operated entirely by one person who makes the rules, streams, commentates, invites players, sets servers etc. So certain big changes are almost impossible to perform, even though I agree with them, like live stewarding, certain new features, or a dramatic increase of production value.

    I certainly do not expect to compete in the slightest with multi million dollar Esports in MOBAs when I stream a race alone from my living room. And I think no one should.

    But what I am trying to do at least is to provide some entertainment for the RaceRoom community and a nice stage for our drivers, and in a way it's also kinda sad for me since it's still a lot of effort each week that I put in, nonstop, to see it not being appreciated. But also not so surprising either since there are obvious flaws, that you guys keep pointing out.

    The main takeaways for me are so far:
    - The important thing is we need to make sure that we mainly create competitions and formats where everyone can race and have fun! And the viewing is kinda secondary.
    - The driving at the moment is not fair enough, so no one can relate to it or respect/support the competitors.

    We will think about some improvements, meanwhile keep it coming. Destroy the Esports! Tell me how bad it sucks :D
     
  11. wesker6664

    wesker6664 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    +1 from me : it seems that we have already reached a point where simracers in esports have an incredibile level of focus and way too much time to practice endlessly the same combo, resulting in races that do not offer a great spectacle. After the race start, it's generally just a boring procession, this guys don't make any mistakes and the games we have now probably do not offer enough challenge and variations in terms of tracks temperatures, tires management, etc
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Ratings:
    +302 / 0 / -0
    I watched a few E-sports videos with little attention. Interesting but I don't understand how things actually work. I presume this is the same like any other gaming competitions or there is more?
     
  13. David Peres

    David Peres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Ratings:
    +96 / 0 / -0
    With some exceptions, I've seen this "boring procession" phenomenon happen more on Raceroom races when compared to esport competitions from other sims. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's directly related with the fact that Raceroom is also the most forgiving sim, handling wise, which means that there will be less mistakes and therefore the races tend to be more monotonous.

    And then that monotony will occasionally be broken by overly agressive moves, becouse the damage is also very forgiving, which instead of providing excitement will just make the race feel a bit "artificial" (I know... simulations are by definition "artificial" but I can't think of a better word :D).

    As Alex keeps improving the physics and damage model hopefully Raceroom races will become more entertaining to watch in the future :)
     
  14. Stickdeath1980

    Stickdeath1980 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2018
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -0
    Sorry i know it can sound harsh But it's better out than in.After reading this i went and watched a GT sport Live thing with Jimmy boardbent and another english men don't know but my word the racing in that made me wanna buy a ps4 again lol from me the viewer going meh GT to OMG go KIWIS lol was bloody great to watch.What sort of Weight pentailes are you guys inforcing to winners or top 10? would make thing's alot more even yes?
     
  15. Robert Wiesenmüller

    Robert Wiesenmüller Esports / Events

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 0 / -0
    The production of these events is fantastic, but that's kinda what I was aiming at - they run at ca. 50x our budget for these events, so it makes sense to learn some small aspects, but it makes no sense to compare it. I think what you can compare are the iRacing events, Assetto Corsa SRO series and the Project CARS events.

    I think weight penalties are pretty unfair to be honest, so we are not running any.
     
  16. Trickle

    Trickle Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    My honest and hopefully constructive points I would love to see?

    - Get rid of overly hyped hotlap competitions with whatever online race after that

    - only do your esports on-site events, get rid of online esport events at all, that way it doesnt interfere with patch rythm etc.

    - don't focus on some hyped partners for no consumer-related reason.
    Sure, maybe Volkswagen does pay you for the ID.R thing - but please don't make it better than this vacuum cleaner really is, as it is in no way suitable for racing - I mean especially in Reallife that thing can barely get around Nordschleife for even one lap.

    - contribute more to variety in community leagues, from what I can see they are often en par or even better (maybe more manpower as they do it as their hobby?) than the esports cringe from RaceRoom.
    You could consider getting back to it, if the player count goes up and some system like in iRacing for regular races comes in handy.

    - sooner than later improve netcode (and possibly other parts of the client) as servers still are unstable or driver connections tend to drop, especially with more cars - and tbh, on tracks like Bathurst, Nordschleife, Spa, 36 cars at max is just not enough. Especially not when it comes to trying to establish multi-class-races. Driver changes are not possible, long races a gambling game of stability.

    - more content to create more diversity, especially in the GT series. As you mentioned you focus more on hard racing than open-wheeler things. Yet, the last cars were the FR90s, some 1-car-class things like the Porsches and the vacuum cleaner.

    Instead I would really love to see a better balance on existing series (GT3, GT4) or/and even expand.
    I would love to see BTCC, especially since some TCR cars already create a good basement for that.
    I would really love to see the old STW 95-99 as they are real hard racing cars

    Yes, that are a lot of points not directly referring to esports but, in my opinion, are relating to that a lot and the display of RaceRoom in general.


    And referring to one of the opinions above:

    Yes, the settings used for esports are boring. Usually you tend to let them drive without damage, there is so much cutting and unsporty behaviour etc without penalty (cf discussion of last weekend) which just portrays RaceRoom to be another Forza or Project Cars like racing game rather than a Sim.
    And that, in my opinion, is not what it really is.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  17. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Ratings:
    +257 / 0 / -0
    Wow, your post contains 423 words and I disagree with literally every single one of them. That must be a new world record or something.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  18. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Ratings:
    +395 / 0 / -0
    So you think r3e is in the same category as forza? ;)
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  19. Trickle

    Trickle Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0
    Well, I am totally fine with that. The post contains my personal opinion and I am fully aware that it may differ from other point of views - which I totally would love to hear.

    I would appreciate if you would expand your opinion a bit more :)
     
  20. Robert Wiesenmüller

    Robert Wiesenmüller Esports / Events

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,133 / 0 / -0
    I'm sorry guys, but if the style of "constructive criticism" that is used in the forums here is to call it "Esports Cringe" and demand that we stop Esports all together, then I am not interested any longer in participating in this conversation. We will work on improving our system, in the background. Thanks for all constructive messages.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1