Problem with new FFB on G25

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Esa Ahonen, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    So this is my last attempt to get feedback from the devs before I say completely goodbye to RRE. I have written to many threads about the problem with G25. No answer at all. I don't understand the function of the forum if I can't get any kind of response from Sector 3. You could at least say that you'll look into this.

    The new FFB on G25 is very numb. There's no feedback about understeer at all. Wheel is completely silent even when causing massive understeer. Road detail is practically non-existent. I can feel only the biggest bumps and curbs (and that's on Nordschleife that has details). Overall feel is like there is massive filtering going on. If I had 100% detailed FFB earlier, now I have about 10% of that detail. I have no feel what the car is doing, zero feel of the front end grip. Feels like car is just hovering above the track.

    I have started from the default profile. I have checked that it's not clipping. While looking at the FFB meter I have hard time believing that smallest vibrations shown are actually transmitted to wheel. I feel none of them. Only the big jolts can be felt.

    It's also not the old setups (they shouldn't affect the FFB anyhow) because problem is there with M4 GT4 and Porsche GT2 too. I have tried great variety of different FFB settings and none of them gets me anywhere near what it used to be.

    I have noted that many are happy with the new FFB. I don't believe I have same experience as them. I still want to believe there's something wrong with G25 and this is not how the new FFB is meant to be.
     
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  2. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen KW Studios Developer Beta tester

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    Could you upload the controller profile (.rcs) that you made from default? (Documents > My Games > SimBin > RaceRoom Racing Experience > Userdata > ControlSet). Then we can at least check if you are getting the intended settings and maybe recommend something to try.
     
  3. Andy Blade

    Andy Blade Well-Known Member

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    I could but already re bound it to fix the problem myself, I could delete it all again and start over ?
     
  4. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    This is the best I can come up with. The most notable changes from default here are the vertical/lateral ratio in attempt to get more road detail and then I also cut out the collision effect from 200% to 100%. But I've tried a lot of different combinations with no success.

    Edit: If you have a G25, please try it yourself. I really don't believe FFB meter shows what is transmitted to wheel.
     

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  5. Andy Blade

    Andy Blade Well-Known Member

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    dann went quiet in here ?
     
  6. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen KW Studios Developer Beta tester

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    Unfortunately I don't have a G25, I edited the steering force exponent value in the .rcs, which changes the FFB linearity. It could be that the weaker wheels can't transmit enough detail to work with linear FFB. Give it a try and let me know if it's any better!
     

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  7. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    Thank you. I'll try it later today.
     
  8. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    Had to try it asap. I drove Nordschleife with M4 GT4 and there's no little details and no understeer feedback at all. Only some occasional big bump like goin down Fuchsröhre. So the feeling of massive filtering is still there. If there's any change I think the FFB feels more "bouncy". I mean that those big bumps that cause action on wheel now hit harder.

    Can you describe what kind of effect understeer should now have on the new FFB? I mean it would be good to know that there should be something.
     
  9. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen KW Studios Developer Beta tester

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    As you approach the peak slip angle the FFB will start to level off in strength, and slightly down if you go further too. It is much more subtle than most of the old profiles had though, because they were running insane levels of the understeer setting, which determines how much that tire grip effect does. Most likely you would prefer to have it higher than the 10% on default.
     
  10. Jona777

    Jona777 Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried adjusting the steering rack?
     
  11. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    Yep. I'm not trying to say that effect should be this or that. I miss any effect for understeer. What I'm feeling is not subtle, it's just a constant force to turn against and it stays the same no matter how hard I understeer. There's nothing that I could determine the front end grip level from.

    About the road detail. Just drove rF2 and AC just to compare. There's a huge difference what gets through the wheel on high speed parts of the Nordschleife. The two others put out a lot of vibrations, smaller and bigger. RRE just has big bump here and there, between them there's nothing. It's like flying.

    If that's any help curbs on the other hand cause more detailed vibrations.
     
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  12. theravenousbeast

    theravenousbeast Well-Known Member

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    Same issue more or less on my DFGT. No feel for front end grip. Countersteering forces feel super delayed. Seems like a Logitech issue.

    Well either that or this new feedback system is unlike any other sim on the market now or in the past. And I'm hardly the FFB snob. Hell I can feel out and play Codemasters games, Forza 7. As long as I can find that sweet spot on the tyre grip and drive on the edge of it it's good enough for me. The road feel isn't nearly as key to me.

    I really hope devs look into the Logitech defaults and get us something usable.
     
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  13. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    That's exactly what I'm thinking. I really can't believe Sector 3 would make this kind of change to what used to be a good FFB.

    And it's not that I expect the FFB to communicate the grip in a certain way. I'm only expecting it to communicate it somehow. I can easily adapt to different FFB "languages" but here I have nothing.
     
  14. theravenousbeast

    theravenousbeast Well-Known Member

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    Or we could just get a legacy FFB option... between it feeling crap on specific wheels and it having issues with older content I don't see why not. Especially since I've already invested in this title WHEN everything worked as it should. And don't give me that still a beta crap. This has been out for how many years now? 6-7? Making drastic changes like this, knowing there would be issues with legacy content and older wheels.

    This should've been in a GTR3, not half assed and pushed into RRRE.
     
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  15. Nibo

    Nibo New Member

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    I registered here to say that I'm feeling same "muted" FFB after December update as Esa and others describe. I have G27. And I bought all content for RaceRoom on BF specifically because I tried it and was very impressed with FFB (how it was before update). A week after purchase one of main reasons I bought the game is gone. I was shocked when I first tried new version, exactly what others describe - no feeling of mass transfer, no feeling on braking, on understeer... It took me a lot of time to tweak parameters for new FFB profile to get it to drivable state, but its no where near old FFB. Its especially bad on non-updated cars, it consists almost completely of some spring force and kerb rumble.

    I see developers visit this threads, so I ask if it is possible to make old FFB an option alongside new one. Or at least make some changes to FFB on Logitech wheels, because I, as others, can not believe it is working correctly.
     
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  16. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    Glad you two stated that you suffer from the same. I've received some "agrees" to my posts on this problem. So there are others too. The problem really exists.

    So far we have this edited controller file (which didn't help) from Thomas Jansen but nothing else. Not even a promise that someone will check this problem out. Maybe @Alex Hodgkinson could help us out?
     
  17. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    If you display the FFB meter, how close is it showing to the upper limit in say Radillon @ Spa?
     
  18. Nibo

    Nibo New Member

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    This is with FFB car multiplier at 1.9, what I use for this car now.
    20191226141546_1.jpg

    This is with multiplier at 3 (which is a bit too much for me, resistance force is strong, but there are still no detail on braking or in corners):
    20191226141502_1.jpg

    Attached my controller profile. I usually don't use overall strong FFB forces, that's why values are a bit low, but I tried upping every parameter and "muted" feeling is not because something is low.

    Here is screenshot in corner with FFB multiplier at 3 and I'm abruptly adding/removing throttle to induce understeer/oversteer, graph stays relatively flat and there are no change of forces on the wheel. I don't know if it should be like that and I can not directly compare to old FFB, unfortunately. I don't remember how old FFB was in every detail, but I certainly remember that I was feeling everything that I need and was enjoying driving. I do remember that wheel was getting lighter/tighter depending on what car was doing in the different stages of the corner, and I remember that braking was not like now - silent, there was some communication from the wheel.
    20191226143310_1.jpg
     

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  19. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    Nibo already put out examples but I can add that it's not a matter of FFB strength. I have tried all sorts of combinations (adjusting per car FFB last) and to feeling of massive filtering and lack of front end grip feeling is there with low or high total output of FFB.

    Please grab a G25 and try it for yourself.
     
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  20. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    Reinstall Logitech driver when every other sim is fine? And problems started exactly from the R3E December update.