It´s curious that in a recent survey on what people would like to see improved in the game; https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...oved-in-rre-may-2020.15184/page-2#post-204826 FFB improvement polled less than 12% of votes and was in penultimate position ahead of only Esports. In the other survey about favourite aspects of the game it polled 17% 5th position. https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ts-do-you-like-most-about-rre-may-2020.15174/ To my mind that suggests it is not and should not be a number one priority to work on improving as the majority of people who voted are neither up in arms about it nor love it. I can understand people with higher end rigs or layouts, who have spent serious coin on it and want maximum realism, could be disappointed with how RRE works for them but they are in the minority and improving AI, graphics and User Interface would seem to be much more mainstream wishes. I agree that the FFB setup menu is daunting with so many different things to adjust, seemingly to little or no effect, but one could say the same about the car setup menu too. I guess if you are looking for the final tenths on a lap then you will need to spend time tweaking both these aspects and the general control setup menu too. It´s really going to be down to personal taste same as some guys prefer to run a softer more forgiving car setup and others want a more on edge car. Seems that for once, using a keyboard is an advantage as I can just hook up and instantly go racing - not the fastest, but not the slowest and sometimes people can overthink these things.
I don't regard these forum polls as very meaningful in their results. Participants are kinda biased and there is no weighting of the possibilities. For one it's of minor importance and for the second it's a showstopper. And if you look at it in that way, it might be a reason for 12 % to leave. Nothing here in offence, interesting they are anyways.
My conclusion is that everything is fine now, just now it is no longer a game I like. Before it was my main game, but the current changes mainly the ffb, I already decided that it is not for me, at first I was angry as I see users in the forum, just accept it, luckily there is a world full of racing games. It is not worth getting angry and being disrespectful to others, although I am checking the forum in case I can ever enjoy raceroom again
Absolutely agree as it is only a poll of active forum members, maybe we account for less than 10% of active players. However, I did expect it have more support as an area to improve on so maybe it isn´t that big a deal apart from for those who are directly affected. I could make another poll about whether people prefer pre Dec 19 FFB, the current one or don´t use don´t care but I think we already have quite a good idea of who is positioned where.
What you quoted from my whole post was me expressing my fear that this will never get fixed or overlooked. I simply love the game, Its my main sim and one I'll continue support. I am not posting here to cause problems. I don't feel my post suggest anything like that. I've always been a very patient guy I was simply hoping something good would come by looking for a solution here. Was I wrong? Unfortunately the thread has not gone in a good direction.
The selection bias here is not in how many people come to forums compared to the whole userbase, it's in how many people left the game specifically because of FFB and aren't taking part in this poll at all. But yeah, I expected it to be higher too.
I'd like to add some of my perspective on the matter and I have already made a post here about how I feel about FFB and what my suspicions are, but I'd really like to know, what people consider lacking in Raceroom's FFB? It may not be the most immersive, but what is missing? Also, I think that quite a lot has to do with the car and track combination. I did a few laps today in the 90's F1 cars at Suzuka and honestly, I think the feel is better than in something like a GTR. I also did a comparison today between ACC and the original AC, took the GTR for a spin at Brands and to my surprise, there was actually more going on with the wheel in ACC. I would like to know, what people consider the baseline for rating FFB? For example, with a GT3 car, rFactor 2 doesn't feel that different to AMS or ACC, but one key difference I found there, that is not in any other sim, or at least it's not that pronounced it that under breaking, it's significantly harder to turn the wheel (and we are talking ABS here). Another thing is, that with people who say they don't like the new FFB and decide to quit the game, what changed so much? I feel like it is changed, but frankly, the default settings for my wheel, feel pretty close to what I had before and most of what's missing comes from canned effects. Fiddling with the settings, isn't also that daunting - you have overall force, the FFB strength, then lateral and vertical effects (one should affect turning the wheel when cornering and the other turning the wheel when braking). Last is the steering rack, which I think should only be a factor with cars without power steering. And of course the understeer effect, which determines how quick and how much the wheel looses resistance in understeer conditions. I did manage to get how all these things work way back in my DFGT day, when the FFB clipping meter was introduced. At that point I was using recommended settings from experts, but when testing with the meter on, I found how insanely my FFB was clipping. The current defaults for my wheel (T300) are pretty much what I had before, if I set the values exactly the same, some effects will feel overdone, and since I'm lazy and it works I don't fiddle with it. One thing I noticed though, is that no matter what I set, the FFB meter will show clipping in most fast corners and I think there might be something wrong with it, since clipping should be the point where all you can feel is resistance and I definitely feel all the stuff I think I should feel, even if the graph goes all the way above the red line.
errr FFB isnt what is lacking here gents.. No whats lacking is the engine upgrade and dynamic track changes and adding weather. As far as im concerned FFB is good for me! Add the above and then we can talk!
Yes, and while we're at it, how about parts degradation, more damage per collision, engine temperatures, coolant temperatures, brake wear and clutch burn. At least crappy shifting does damage to the gearbox. On the one hand, I feel you, simracing realism discussions are all about tyres and FFB, while there is so much more to it, especially with older cars, which in most sims, you can push to the limit all the time without having to worry about engine or brakes failures. However, this is an FFB discussion, so I guess maybe there space to expand the realism topic in another thread? Let's keep it simple and to the point?
And more and more lost, I don't know how someone can be happy with the default settings. Of t300, formatted computer installed game, and default t300 and it breaks my arms in every corner without feeling of road or loss of grip, or anything at all is like turning a steering wheel to the dumb. I play to asseto compete well. Asseto corsa bien. Good motorist, rfactor2 super good, something has to be happening on some PCs, it can't be that much difference in feelings
I found with some cars the FFB is too strong, but you can change the FFB ratio per car in the setup - not as easy as Asseto, where you can do it on the fly, but still there. I found that newer cars don't need much tweaking, with older ones, something like 1.5 gets it in line with the rest. Which is pretty much, why I asked what the FFB be according to the people who don't like it and also mentioned a car and track combo for setting up a baseline.
For me FFB loss is not the strength of the wheel. Yes I feel the bumps in the road, yes I feel the rumble strips, gear shifts and impacts. What was lost for me was the feeling of the weight of the car. I used to feel that when attacking a turn or a quick shift of the wheel wheel pulling out of drafting the lead car. I could feel when the weight shift could be corrected with a little throttle or opposite steering. I could feel that in the wheel and when I switched from a V2.5 to the DD2 base I was blown away at how much more that sensation was transmitted and how it helped me to visually focus on the next apex or what the car infront of me was doing rather than visually try to since what my car was doing. That is what I lost after the update, the feed back strength is good, it's the details of car weight transfer in corning and braking that feels flat. Before the update I could feel if I was coming into a corner to hot well before I would see the front end not turning in, in comparison to my wheel inputs, I could feel the tire struggling for grip, the slight muttering in the wheel. For some all this may seem minor, but when I came to Raceroom in 2016 from iracing I thought man RR feels way better and when ACC came out I was still very much pleased with RR until December's update. Thankfully ACC hit it out of the park when their tire model update released and it brought back that feel of weight transfer along with chassis flex. Not wanting to get into a debate on this as this is my point of view.
Why is using bass shakers a fake effect? I find it works perfectly in addition to the ffb in the wheel. You definitely feel the road. Keep in mind we are driving "fake" cars. I mostly drive GT3, GT4 and DTM. Mostly in raceroom. I am not a fanboy, I have tried everything else as well. I wanted to love ACC as GT3 is my main go to car. I only have 20 hours in but I can't get the cars to feel different from one another or feel connected to the road like Raceroom. ACC has the cars I would like... Lambo, Ferrari, Aston Martin but I find they only sound different and drive the same. I much prefer driving the old 911 and the new 911 in raceroom. They somehow made them feel different enough to enjoy them both. Something I haven't found in any other sim, yet. Obviously this subject and ffb road feel is very subjective from person to person and what they "think" should be felt from driving Fake cars with motorized wheels and shakers etc. It's unfortunate that updates affect some in a negative way. Fortunately I have only had positive results with updates and the equipment I use. Rather old equipment as well. I track real bmw's as well so I do know what a real road/track feels like. I have no problem with the effects from this game. My 2 cents, Cheers
I also have 6 bass shakers on my rig and i was firing simhub all the time to get road feel in RRE. but tweaking the rcs file with what ravey found out is making me sometimes leaving my bass shakers alone.its that good really,for me
Well here is a good thing. Today some friends came to my house who are not simulator players, so I quit, did not comment or put my little cave of games on them. We start with rf2, then asseto corsa, then the competizione Motorist 2 , everyone was having a good time, with the bodysahkers, and finally I installed racerrom again, and I put it on, which was my surprise, since I've been hating it since the ffb update, all my friends fell in love with raceroom , commenting on everyone the best raceroom, so it made me think ..... In the end something is not right in my brain, and I want it to change because I love raceroom
Sometimes you need to look at simple approach if you think that RR FFB has changed. For example. adding a little bit of friction or overall ffb intensity or whatever you are missing etc...Might not be a case of 'everything has changed and now I hate it' Get onto one or two parameter values adjusted and see if you can get close to what you prefer.
try adjusting the ffb intensity or increase friction and dumper from the DD2 software if there is any.
It's not so much the road feel that were concerned about, it's the lack of feel in the corners. Oversteer/understeer.