[Official] Complete car physics/AI status lookup - updated 05/01/2023

Discussion in 'Car Information and physics updates' started by Alex Hodgkinson, May 23, 2020.

  1. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    What a load of complete nonsense. You clearly have very little experience actually running these cars online in a properly competitive environment.

    I run a racing club that regularly runs the GTR 3s, and people generally pick their favourite cars. The winner is nearly always the best driver, not the person in the latest 2019 car. And FYI, I have seen a Bentley win on multiple occasions. The guy refused to drive anything else. He even held his own vs GTR 2s in a multi-class race. Just because you can't make them go fast, it doesn't mean they're somehow inferior. I've won in the MP4 as well, and the BMW Z4, and I'm not even that fast.
     
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  2. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Yup. But nothing really changes when you look at top 2 seconds. Out of 136 entries there are only 10 cars that you don't see very often: Bentley (4), old Audi LMS (2), Alpina (1), Corvette Z06 (1), Ford GT (1), RUF GT3 (1). Again, no Mustangs or Camaros.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  3. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    By that i meant that just because the guys within one second chose the usual cars doesnt mean that the other cars are a second off the pace and the same would go for the top two second guys and so on. Looking at the leaderboard will not give you any facts about the bop, all you can do is make somewhat educated guesses
     
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  4. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    With all honesty, will you be as positive to also claim all cars in GTR3 are as fast as recent Porsche, AMG, Audi or BMW?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  5. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. But when wherever you look all the guesses are similar, you might suspect there really is a reason behind it.
     
  6. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    Theres still a difference between a suspicion and a proven fact tho.
    If i have nothing to do tomorrow i might see what i can do in the bentley and try to get it off the terribly boped list ;)
     
  7. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Bentley isn't terribly BOPed, though: in this Monza leaderboard it's the closest car to "the fast 5".

    But these cars didn't make their way to the top 2 seconds at all:
    - BMW Z4;
    - Chevy Camaro;
    - Ford Mustang;
    - McLaren MP4;
    - Mercedes-Benz SLS;
    - Nissan GT-R;
    - P4-5.

    In order to prove that everything's fine with BOP, we need to see these cars on top too. Or at least those that we expect to see there:
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  8. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    It doesn't necessarily mean they can not be driven fast though, it's just that the fastest drivers don't choose to drive them. Also if you open up a leaderboard and the top 10 times are all in a Porsche, which one do you pick to drive? The Porsche, because it's a proven performer, which then skews the results even more.

    Re BOP it's true that the older cars haven't had the same level of polish that the new ones have, partly because the new ones a required for use in eSports and partly because BOPing is a very labour intensive task and there is only ever so much testing time in and amongst testing of new content and new features as well.

    The older cars also are naturally slower even though they run in the same class. They are older technology. Not as aerodynamic etc. The Mustang may have a brute of a motor but it's also a brick compared to a modern GT3 car.

    As Goffik points out, in a field of drivers with mixed ability car choice isn't so much of a factor, the driver makes the difference, but when it comes to the absolute elite drivers they will always pick the fastest car, to not do would be illogical. Hence why we see that the leaderboards all have the same cars at the top.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  9. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    But its among my favorite old gt3s :D
    So would you be happy if those cars got into the top 2 seconds or do you need them to be a lot closer, say at least within half a second? If its the latter im probably not up to the job anyways looking at some of the top guys on that leaderboard, if its the former i could at least try in a few of them
     
  10. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    So what I get from this is:
    - many GT3 cars really are slower than newer ones;
    - "same car" fields in high level competitions are inevitable so I get it shouldn't be a reason to not rebalance the class, if the opportunity comes.

    That was exactly my point. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  11. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Since Ravey confirmed these cars really are not balanced against each other, which was my point, - I guess what would be interesting to find is, how much slower they are exactly compared to the recent cars. Just your two cents, if you have the time to get them on track.

    If they aren't even good in Monza (which it seems), then they are probably especially sad on other tracks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  12. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    It´s free to do a BOP test drive on Raceroom track with all of them and reach your own conclusions. One lap speed is not the only factor for BOP as Alex could also easily work on tyre wear and fuel consumption for races and some cars may be more comfortable to drive in a race even if slower.

    In real life, Porsche have always been really good about providing products for customer teams and not just their factory teams. One of their priorities is to make the cars driveable for the gentlemen drivers who are often funding the racing programs. McLaren didn´t get that with the first MP4-12 as they made it too hard to drive on the limit - fine for the pro drivers but the gentlemen were crashing out all the time so they had to make an evolution and eventually a new car and lost a few clients because of it.

    Cars like the Camaro and Mustang were private initiatives (similar to the Gr 5 vehicles), so it is logical they won´t be as good as an in-house design by a constructor. Having said that, the DTM92 Mustang was always 4 seconds or more off pole on any given track being an owner driver privateer team so it has a miraculous BOP in RRE!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  13. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I assume the devs aren't trying to replicate real life results for each car 1:1.
     
  14. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    I am doing my own test on the Bridge track using test drive mode as I don´t have all the cars. So far the M6 is fastest with 1.11.6 and the Camaro is slowest with 1.13.2

    I am doing a 3 lap session using standard setup, 100% traction control and ABS and following the ideal racing line, in the interest of comparison rather than out and out speed.
    What is more relevant than lap times is I could do 3 consistent laps in the M6 from the start as it was so planted but some other cars had 2 cancelled laps out of a 3 lap stint and the Ford GT even needed a 4th lap to register a time.
    When I have finished, I´ll make a spreadsheeet with my times.

    The fastest time attack at the moment is 1.09.5 with the 2019 911, which I haven´t tried yet.
     
  15. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    @Maskerader still have a few cars that i wanna try but im now done with the z4, the mp4 12c and the corvette z06. All cars are within 1.5 seconds of p1 of the leaderboard although my laps in the z4 and the mclaren were literally my first valid laps on the leaderboard so there might be more time for me there as well but they didnt feel like terrible laps so i left it at that.
    Ill also add that this is the first time ive done any setup work for a gt3 on monza since the december update so who knows what i may or may not be missing in that department.
    Now to the point where i get to prove that looking at the leaderboards wont tell you the whole truth. If you were to look for the best z06 you wouldve found it about 3 seconds off of p1; must be a terrible car then right? ;)
    Turns out it isnt at all. Im now in p5 just 0.05 seconds behind p2 in said corvette
     
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  16. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Well, that doesn't change the fact that older cars are confirmed to be slower than newer ones on average and that I and Vale were right pointing it out. :p
     
  17. Aurigarius

    Aurigarius Member

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    @Alex Hodgkinson is this list available as an Excel-file?
    Great work! Thank you.
     
  18. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    Not yet, but I will make a version available soon™
     
  19. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

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    @Alex Hodgkinson Is it soon yet?
     
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  20. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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