Update warning?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GooseCreature, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. dentalfloss

    dentalfloss Member

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    I'm disappointed to see that there are commies in the stands.
     
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  2. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    At this precise moment I have a Puma t-shirt on, I am most definitely not a big cat. ;)
     
  3. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Well my friend, here's hoping the organ grinder sees sense and gives the green light.
    Tiz so showing its graphical age and limitations, trouble is, massive expense and risk for no coffers in return, unless of course you badge it as RR2, shudder the thought.
    Not my only beef mind, once upon a time you could happily say S3 Devs were the most forthcoming with information and communication in general. Can't say the same today, tighter lips than a Nuns Nanny, absolutely no idea what's going on in the slightest. With other Devs being so much more open I find S3's strategy difficult to understand.
    Good or bad, I would prefer to know where things stand, this treading water doesn't help anyone.
    After watching a few MSFS video's I'm seriously contemplating hanging up my driving gloves and getting the old goggles out of the drawer, they seem to know how to produce eye candy to die for.
     
  4. Badgerous

    Badgerous Well-Known Member

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    That's a little dramatic.

    At this point you either enjoy this sim, or you don't.. This isn't a game in early access, or in it's infancy in any way - No roadmap/update plan is really going to change things that much. It's not perfect (no game is) but for me it's easily the most rounded and diverse sim out there. I can reel off a bunch of pros/cons with all the other choices, but RRE is the bedrock I keep coming back to. - It's easy to overlook the sheer breadth of content we have here, and there's always a car/track combo to try afresh or rediscover.

    That said - I'm looking forward to what next week brings. Improvements and new content are always welcome.

    MSFS does indeed look great, but you know you can play more than one thing at a time, right? :)
     
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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  5. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    What's with new players?
    No news are bad news and imply stagnation. Imo the wrong approach to catch new users.
     
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  6. Badgerous

    Badgerous Well-Known Member

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    Since I started playing there's been steady stream of new cars, new tracks, ongoing physics revisions/updates, time of day, improved sounds, and the devs responded well to some 3rd party app issues.

    "Stagnation" my arse.
     
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  7. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    It's the users who recognize evolution and development of R3E being part of the community and playing the game.
    But new customers not knowing the process and habit of RaceRoom and S3S do not get attracted by none to little communication.
    I do not discuss quality, quantity or developement of R3E. I'm part of R3E for 6 years now, so I know, what has happened.
    I said
    and meant this from an outside view.
    Maybe I didn't express this distinctly.
     
  8. n01sname

    n01sname Well-Known Member

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    Guess every RR veteran (like me) is very aware of that. But there is a new level of evolution in simracing on its way already and the gaming technology in general is quickly evolving as well (nowadays to an almost exponential degree) - and my guts are telling me that S3 should be very careful not to fall behind. There are always die hard fans (see RBR for example) trying to keep a worthy title alive though I doubt that this - in long terms - is enough to keep a brand attractive enough to maintain its position on the market - specially within a fast-paced gaming community. And the quantity of content - even if of high quality - cannot compensate a lack of necessary innovation by self inflicted technological limitations (to say so).
    I own most of the content (also to support RRE) but use just a very small percentage regularly tbh.)...

    Well, I state all this from my guts (and putting my fanboy glasses aside for a moment), but my guts have been quiet reliable throughout the years....;)...
     
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  9. pixeljetstream

    pixeljetstream Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Though the limitations are not self inflicted, given S3S is not independent and therefore cannot just spend major money (hiring/contracting etc.) on upgrading the tech itself, as long as the owners (RR etc.) don't value such technology upgrades, there is no hope, which makes this situation probably as frustrating for them (who wants to use ancient tech) as for us.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  10. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    I'm a drama queen but only when the planets align and my crystals, eh, do whatever crystals do.
    My heart says S3 have indeed secured a new engine or have employed someone to knock one up bespoke but the whole company is held under a NDA.
    Yet my brain says RR2 at best, a slow walk into the Sunset at worst.
    I've also not got room for 2 rigs and you can't fly with a wheel, well you can but if I'm gonna fly, I'm gonna fly in style, full cockpit is a must. Tiz all about the immersion for me, my life sucks, so escaping, even for a shortly while is what rocks my boat, Hmmm boat sim, keep my rig as is...................
     
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  11. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    The migration to a new engine was hinted at several years ago already, and since then there is silence. GTR3 collects mockery like book shelves collect dust. I think the time window is closing or already has closed for just replacing the engine in RR, and then continue driving on.

    I think they may be better advised to do like the game The Hunter has done. Some years ago, the classic game The Hunter got a new brother, named Call of the Wild. 8 years or so younger, superior engione anyway. Everybody was speculating whether this was meant to be The Hunter 2, or a parallel branch with newer graphics and simplified game mechanics. It turned out that it was not really any of the two, but it was The Hunter 2 - but not meant to replace the Classic edition, which is still around, and even since one year has been started to get supported and maintained again. It showed that the gameplay suffered from bad animal AI in the new game, else it is looking and dping many things better. But essential stuff gets done better by the old game, and thats why it still is around: they now made it free to play, but do not stop people to support the game by also buying some stuff, but it is no pay-to-win, you can do without that.

    I think RR maybe should follow this pattern leave the boat as it is, but let it keep on floating. But do not invest into developing it any further, but instead do a new title - PARALLEL to the classical Raceroom. With the new one shaping up and hopefully being even "better" and getting beefed up in content, players all by themselves may start to migrate from the old to the new one, a process that may last for some years, which is absolutely okay, and gives the individual player time to adapt his hardware to the specs of the new game, and according to his financial freedom.

    Honestly, I see Raceroom to have reached the end of its development journey. Content-wise, quality-wise. I also see no need to have it being replaced in one rush, old game switched off, new game switched on. Let old and new coexist, and then give it time, a few years. If the new game is good, and satifying by content volume, players will follow all by themselves.

    RR today imo has reached its final evolution phase, like some car models at some point are being discontinued to get new evolution stages, and a new car gets done from scratch. My interest is now focussing on seeing a transition being done with patience, maximum smoothness, and player-orientation. Players that have spend lots of money on the old game. And there is so much good track content, that should not be switched off all in one rush to boost sales of anyother game that then again needs years to get filled up with content, getting patched, tuned, tweaked. The track pool of Raceroom is a treasure chest, second to none in business. It should not be abandoned, but should be kept available for playing.

    Its not "Raceroom 1 or Raceroom 2". Its "Raceroom 1 AND Raceroom 2."

    Some years ago, Kunos was in the same situation, they found that what they wanted to do next could not be done with the classical AC anymore, its model had limits they could not work around anymore. They did not stuck to it endlessly, but declared its developement as ended, and started new. The result is ACC, while AC1 still lives and does strong and healthy. Something similiar should be done now with RR. Becasue in practically everyxthing that ACC with its limited, but spcialsed focus does, it does better tna Raceroom, or any other sim. In other words: Raceroom'S showing of its age canot be hidden any longer. Its not just the graohics,, weather, dyn maic time of day, its also the driving experience, the physics. Nopthing of that is bad in RR, in no way: but othes have started to do it weven better,m and have started to let RR tria,l behidn more and more. And I imnagien that to be due to engine limitations that cannot be worked around by just another chnage of number sin the existing formulas. Its the formulas embedded in the engine that may set limites here, I feel.

    What I like about my idea? Two things. Raceroom stays for some more years to come. And a new Raceroom would be coming. Win-win. The old game could even be used to still generat esome money, bvy easing the business model. In The Hunter, roginally everythign was real moeny microtransaction. They loosned it up tremendosuly, n ow you only spoend money for immersion reaoisns, but for the most not for gameplay reason. THEY WON NEW PLAYERS IN HUGE NUMBERS THAT WAY. The game was played and still is played by more players now then it was in the last months before the business model change.

    I wait for no more new tracks. I do not need any more new old cars, the x-th iteration of DTM or WTCC cars. I am not interested. The sim is complete, AND MORE THAN THAT: Its stuffed up to the roof with content. What now is needed, is a bigger, better, newer house.

    Saying this as a many years-long fan of both Raceroom and Assetto Corsa. I always refused to choose between the two. I always played both.
     
  12. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    No way for me.
    R3E has always been regarded as a long term bussiness model with a promis of steady development. Thats why I spent that much money.
    If it suddenly was all new and a start from the beginning with all content to be bought again, I'd leave.
    I made this twice.
    PC1 and PC2, no more words about it. PC3 doesn't exist.
    AMS1 and AMS2, obviously the same situation, but AMS1 always had been regarded as an interim agreement and by far more cheap.
    I'm stuck little below 1.000 hrs since first Porsche DLC. At that point something had changed my view to R3E. It was the first time, one DLC had been splitt into three releases without an offer as a bundle and one car with one livery for months.
    Meanwhile I made some new attempts to get in again and bought all content, but I bearly use it. I'm no more addicted to R3E as I was before, though I have to admit driving has improved immensely. Affinity has decreased. I need new motivation.
    I see the sincerity in the communication of other developers and miss this from S3S. No more dev (video) blogs, no regular information updates, that sucks and lets R3E vanish behind the horizon of perception. And sorry, Discord I'm ignoring principally.
    I have some 7300 vrps left and no motivation to use them. Half baked series with one or two cars, come on you made this better.
    Well, let's see, what will come.
     
  13. Badgerous

    Badgerous Well-Known Member

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    1000 hours is one hell of an outcome for the money you've paid. Which ever way you cut it, that's some seriously good value-for-money entertainment.
     
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  14. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    Yes some +3 hours for one € an no complaining here, just a snapshot from my attitude towards R3E.
     
  15. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member

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    I also have 1145 hours in this game and i'm not done yet.
    I still belief in the future of R3E, but something need to change concerning the communication of the devs. We urgently need to know what will be the future for this game, not only short term, but even more important the long term vision of this game.
    Where are we going ? Keeping this DX9 engine ? Moving over to something more modern ?
     
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  16. T3AMGEIST

    T3AMGEIST Member

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    In my opinion they need to focus on bringing complete series, DTM 2020 is a good step, maybe ADAC Gt Masters 2020 next. That has been Racerooms strengt in the past. Comparing the number of people online in Steam, raceroom is clear behind AC, ACC and rfactor 2.
     
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  17. n01sname

    n01sname Well-Known Member

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    4.061 hrs here guys ;)
     
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  18. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure that a skilled developer such as R3E knows exactly when is the right time for moving over to something modern.
     
  19. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I made it clear that I did not propagate to switch RR1 off and RR2 on, but to have both coexist over years to come, just not follow an active development course of RR1 anymore.

    A

    I did not say that people should be forced to buy everything new, I would hate to do that myself, too, I own all cars and tracks and most skins, so do the money math. I gave the example of The Hunter Classic and Call of the Wild for how it could be done, to reach a smooth, slow migration over several years. Not "either this or that", but "Both".

    Read again what I actually said! ;) I mad eit very clear that I am not propagating to switch off RR1 and switch on RR2 and have the one replacing the other, but that I imagine years of coexistence of both titles, like ACC and AC1 do now, or the exmaple I gave: The Hunter Classic and Call Of The Wild. I too would hate to lose all the good tracks, they are, beside the benchmark AI, the main reason why I come back to RR again and again, because my most driven classes GT3 and GT4 I do not drive in RR anymore, ACC simply does them better. So again: I did not say that a new RR should replace the old one from one week to the next, and we should buy evertyhing new or being unable to play somehtign labelled "Raceroom".

    Its just that the technology is outdated, and by now we can see it very clearly, and not just visually. It limits the game from progressing, while new contenders have started to leave it behind in some regards: namely weather, dynamic time of day, looks. Its also about memory management, and some more. I do not believe in investing developing time into this old technology any longer. Lets leave RR as what it is, since it is good and has still many years of life in it, but development ressources imo should now exlcusively go into new technology, and that the old platform cannot provide. I cannot see that the future belongs to RR, and that is no affront to say, considering the age of the game. .

    Honestly said, I am expecting them to be already engaged in this way, they are just staying silent about it. Probabaly we will see a new sim suddenly presneted, and RR1 then coexisting with it for a transition phase of several years when people will migrate over time all by themselves, according to their interests and financial possibilities. It works in AC1/ACC, it works in THC and COTW. Why not here?

    The last thing I wait for is another WTCC pack. another ADAC pack. Another DTM pack. Cars there are enough, more than enough, more than can be reasonably and frequently driven.
     
  20. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    fuck me @Skybird ; I bet you can't stand twitter :D
     
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