Car physics is stupid

PC2 - very controversial project... I can't tell it is arcade only, and it is simplest for simulator... But ONLY in PC2 when inside VR you turning head right/left - you can hear where is engine placed No other sim has no such sound environment

 

I don't find it particularly arcade tbh., tyres may have more grip and some cars can feel strange at default, but overall, people exaggerate a lot, in my opinion.^^ Sound wise, i find it pretty meh. Sound positioning is good, yes, samples...uhm...not so much, depends on the car.

 

Hopefully this will address some of the problems experienced by myself and others since the December 2019 update and maybe Raceroom will even find its way back onto my hard drive.

 

The Silvia Turbo Gr.5 suffers quite a lot of the unrecoverable slide and spontaneous grip loss. In comparison to that, the GT3 class is unspinnable.

It's not undriveable, but very good to read, that something is in the making for the general "issue".

 

That's good news - trying to correct a RWD car with opposite lock currently feels like a lottery. Sometimes it works, but far too often the car seems to load up like a rubber band and then TWANG you're flipped around into oblivion.

 

That’s great news. But on the other hand , for me rF2 tyres (used e.g. in GT3 and GTE DLCs) seem to have too progressive grip loss, considering they are modern racing slicks, which makes the cars rather easy to drive at and over the limit. In RR GT3 you have much narrow margin of error, so perhaps it should be somewhere in the middle in reality, but IDK. It probably depends on manufacturer, temps, setup etc. too. I’ve seen real GT3 drivers claim, that in general ACC GT3s are now closest to reality in terms of handling.

 

The FR90 is pretty much ruined for me. EDIT: man, i'm probably being a bit hyperbolic here (Still fun as hell, but also frustratingly random, if you lose it) I've not driven them for a while now and they also have the new tyre physics... I have experienced it right now on Monza. I almost think of something like the iRacing grip cliff to compare it, to be honest and i'm not exaggerating it.

Counteractions are "make it softer at the rear and baby it". They ...were... so enjoyable. :-/

GT3 cars are totally drivable in comparison, you can counteract, by reducing rear ARB and making the front suspension stiffer and it will kinda work. But man, all the Vintage stuff makes some serious problems. The most problematic IMO are the FR90 and some Gr.5 cars, like the Silvia Turbo. Old DTM are okay, still slideable, but also have the underlying characteristic of this grip cliff.

I'm really, really, really looking forward to the announced changes!

 

Care to go into more detail on this specifically? Speed? corner? tyre temps? setup?

Fr90 are still fantastic to me and i am able to hold them together. (last tested last night) around Zolder.

By this comment i take it to mean you softened the rear in the setup?

I think these cars have stability control and a bunch of other driving aids. So being unspinnable really is by design i think.

 

ABS and TC. Nothing else.

 

For me, being able to manage and correct slides would be a brilliant improvement.
I think the going on the grass effect is also still too strong (like driving on oil) and could be taken down a notch or too.

 

Tyre temps are fine, happens in operation window, with cold tyres, with tasty hot tyres, no real difference, maybe a bit more pronounced with cold temps, pressures also okay, nothing crazy. The issues majority of occurance is under trail braking and high load/weight shift. But not at speeds, where a full-slick should lose that much grip. It can happen at 30 Kph, it can happen at 100, it could also happen at 150. Downshifting can induce it faster which makes sense, it will influence car balance and pitch behaviour.

Rear ARBs softer, harder front slow bump and springs OR softer rear slow bump and springs, slightly more open diff on power, slightly more lock on the diff at coast, less pre load seems to also give a bit of improvement. (if it actually happens at corner exits, why the car was not "settled" yet, from the occurance at entry. (You actually drive that way on this slidey edge in R3E, to be fast, a GT3 can feel like a rally car at Zheijang when coming into this area ^^' )

I'm aware of that (ABS/TC/ignition cut/autoblip/power shift), please don't quote out of context, i made a clearly hyperbolic comparison statement. Still the new GT3-R, for example, can show a lot of edgyness on the limit. Especially while downshifting (T2 at Zolder for example).
It's not undriveable by any means, but when you drive close to the limit, you get a very tight impression of the edge with basically every car, featuring the newer tyre tweaks on more or less magnitude.^^

I have now experienced your problem a bit better after some testing with some more cars. Especially FR90 and Silvia Turbo show exactly, what you've always described pretty clearly here. The Silvia can be a pretty unsaveable experience on the limit at Bilsterberg.

I think, the issue is based on fine tuning and no "major" tweaks, i'm sure, Alex will do a great job!

 

I am no expert on the games physics nor F1 cars from the 90's but from my own limited knowledge and understanding of F1 cars in this era. Do please correct me if im wrong on this next part.

All the weight is at the back of the car already (Its a rear engined vehicle, softening the back end means under braking less load transitions to the front. If you havent countered any of that weight distribution by raising the front ridehieght(which has a softening effect) or increased front brake bias or softening the front springs. Youre going to be spinning these allot under braking. Especially with the increased bump dampers at the front. (Adds to responsiveness).

The newer F1 cars from the late 90's started to get really good at weight distribution and allow for stiffer front springs. Probably because of the narrower rear tyres and more complex front aerodynamic components.

 

The issue is already under investigation and confirmed to receive fixes, it's not car dependent, it's tyre related. It's basically a physics quirk, that obviously is confirmed to need fine tuning.

Ride height has more effect on aerodynamics, than the actual weight shift. (more front ride height also induces more understeer due to more rear aero variation, which is very important in hard braking zones) A generally harder front reduces pitch sensitivity. A harder front slow bump might increase responsiveness, but it also reduces turn-in.

I also turned brake bias more to the front, but this decreases braking abilities pretty much (sooner locking, longer brake distances, etc.). It's not the braking itself, that triggers the uncatchable slide, it's more the whole deal together.

Like already mentioned, it also happens with other cars. A Zakspeed Capri or Silvia Turbo is front engined. The Capri even features a pretty sophisticated aero to keep the rear in place and even this car suffers from the problem to a certain amount.^^

EDIT:
As disclaimer:
I don't think, the thread title is accurate, nor do i think, that the FR90 is undriveable, it was just such a shock for me coming back to it
I still think, they're fun as hell, like mentioned, maybe i was a bit "hyperbolic" with "ruined", i will admit that. I just don't want to sound so negative, because i still love the driving experience!! The underlying "confidence breaker" remains, but i'm happy, that development is going on at S3.^^

 

I don't get it. From my understanding, softer rear results in slightly more load transition and you'd want to compensate for that by stiffening the front. If you soften the front instead of stiffening it, you increase the load transition even further, increase the grip at the front and reduce the grip at the rear, resulting in even easier spin outs. And responsiveness doesn't necessarily mean better grip while turning, it means less lag between steering inputs and car reactions.

 

Are there any news about the work on edgy behaviour of the new physics on the limit? (And no, i still don't agree with the thread title )
Downshifts on GT3 can cause heavy shift lock, despite having autoblip, resulting in unrecoverable spins.

Understeer, Oversteer and neutral behaviour (all cars on new physics in general, DTM 2020 seems to suffer the least from it) can still feel artificially over the top switching over a tight "threshold", resulting in unrecoverable car balance loss.

The balance between overdriving, underdriving and being spot on personal limits in general is still veeeery hard to archieve. It's "snappy" and "cliff-ish" between the states.

I don't say, it should be "easier" to drive, but i don't know how comprehensible it is, that almost all cars on the new physics have this kind of character.