English Hi to all new here just a note!

Discussion in 'Leagues & Communities' started by Purpleskull™, Feb 4, 2022.

  1. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    there are a few ideas . making them work so you cant just pull the plug when having a bad race is another thing

    Andi
     
  2. Daniel Juhasz

    Daniel Juhasz New Member

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    Hogyan lehet jaték kozben videozni
     
  3. FeltHλt

    FeltHλt Moderator Beta tester

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    use video recording software, such as obs or geforce experience
     
  4. Daniel Juhasz

    Daniel Juhasz New Member

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    honnan toltom le
     
  5. n01sname

    n01sname Well-Known Member

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    @Devin Tolliver

    Why not looking for a nice community/league of your choice, with rules, regulations, decent schedule, race commission and well-functioning private servers ?
    There are tons of folks out there organizing brilliant events - even for free...
    It will make you forget all ranked drama issues and you become experienced (and fast) very quickly...btw.
    Or are you that kinda guy who wants it all without investing anything in return ?
    Don't get me wrong: We all are well aware of the flaws regarding the ranked system, but as there is not much one can do atm. it's up to you to look for alternatives & an alternative approach in general (instead of losing yourself to complaints filled with a lotta "Whataboutism" )...
     
  6. DonaldD

    DonaldD Member

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    I dont think you actually did read what Bergmeier posted
    - absolutely nothing about "the system to work out whos fault it was".
    So check out here what he actually said:
     
  7. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    i wasnt replying to Bergmeier

    so please quote me in context

    Andi
     
  8. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Is this the goal? I think the goal should be balancing it all out, for good drivers and "bad" drivers, rather than chasing rage quitters and telling everyone else to suck it up and move on.

    Like my suggestion to remove disconnect points. This will help people who genuinely got a disconnect or a game crash, while rage quitters basically either won't see any difference or their penalty would be only slightly smaller. There will also be one scenario where they won't see any repercussion but it's very specific and rare (driver rage quitting early while not acquiring any points before that).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

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    I don't know what's wrong with quitting a ranked race. Nobody should care how people finished last - they shoud get a hit to their rating and everybody should move on. DNF, that's it. No reputation hit needed.

    It's better to quit than to be a nuisance to other drivers anyway. I actually respect that.
     
  10. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    I dont know many people who enjoy driving around with a handful of others because half the field has rage quitted after a couple laps. Guess whether or not it should count towards the reputation depends on what the reputation is supposed to reflect. If its just how much contact, off tracks and spins you produce then it shouldnt. If its about all around good behaviour (which is what it seems to be intended to reflect judging by the official explanation) then it should
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

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    You're implying a lot of wild stuff in that made up scenario.

    First of all, it remains to be seen if half of the field would rage quit on any regular basis. I would bet on a few individuals as a regular occurence. That can be half of the grid on Raceroom, but that's a different matter.

    Second of all, you imply that this rule helps maintaining large, competitive grids on Raceroom. We all know such grids are not that common. Raceroom actually needs to encourage people to start in races instead of penalizing them for leaving. This rule is counterproductive in that regard, because that way people have more to lose when they enter. Incentives are always more effective than penalties.

    Third of all, you imply enforcing people to stay in races increases other people's racing experience. How so? You can force people to stay, but you can't force them to contribute to good racing. They can go into the pits, minimize the game and fire up Youtube. You only deprive them of their time. And even if they stay on track, do you actually want to share racetrack with a volatile ragequitter forced to stay in race, waiting to be lapped? That's just trouble waiting to happen. How is that person adding to your race?

    Unless another car's mere presence is making you feel better about your race, your entire point doesn't make sense.

    Here's the issue with such reasoning - it assumes foul play when there could be none. And it's inconsistent with the rest of the ruleset in that regard, as reputation system is non-assuming fault-wise otherwise.

    This results in penalizing drivers who did nothing wrong, in order to prevent an activity that's not harmful in any way, at least not until there's too few spots on the servers - and there's a looong way to go for that to happen and to even see if ragequitting proves to be an issue.

    And there's nothing wrong with retiring from a race anyway. Real drivers do that all the time, for many reasons and nobody else's race is ruined because of that. And you can still do that in Raceroom, you just need to sit on the server to avoid a stupid penalty, while people who genuinely suffered from a disconnection get a hit to their reputation.

    And it's not like you cannot code the system to penalize disconnections, when they happen frequently enough to assume intentional behaviour, while giving the benefit of the doubt to the less frequent ones.
     
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  12. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    Didnt really intend to join a discussion about all of that :D
    I was just trying to answer your question of why quitting counts towards your reputation at the moment.
    But since you wrote all of that i might as well answer :D
    I dont have data to back it up but ive recently been getting into acc and on your average public server half the people quitting seems far from unusual (perhaps not after a couple laps but still)
    Id much prefer a race where 20 drivers start and finish the race over one where 25-30 start and 15 finish the race so encouraging people to start just for the sake of it doesnt seem like the way to go (at least for me). The incentive vs penalty thing seems very much like a matter of perspective rather than something objective. For me getting a better rep by driving clean and finishing races is an incentive to do just that. For you losing rep by not doing those things might feel like a penalty.
    For me the presence of other cars does indeed add a lot, otherwise i could just hotlap all day. The amount of actual wheel to wheel racing isnt particularly big anyways when compared to a full race distance so seeing other cars somewhere in the distance or lapping somebody once in a while makes a race a lot more enjoyable for me. Just sitting in the pits obviously wont add to that but i dont know why anybody would even do that. If you join a ranked race you know youre committing the next half an hour to driving that combo. If youre not willing to make that commitment then just dont join a ranked race in the first place rather then joining and then complaining about wasting time or losing rep.
    Not sure i can follow you on this one. As you say the system doesnt assign fault for on track incidents, it just notices youve been involved in one. It does the same thing with disconnects, it mightve been your fault, it might not have been your fault, either way the system just sees that you disconnected. And unless your internet is super crappy youre gonna get "unfair" incident points for car contacts (which undoubtedly is an unharmful activity unlike rage quitting which generally is rather frowned upon so chances are the majority of people does find it harmful in some way) a lot more often than for technical problems on your side
    I havent seen many real life races where people retire just because they had a spin (that didnt damage the car) or theyre just not fighting for the top spots that day (otherwise haas couldve just retired from every race after lap 1 last season :D). And in real life the penalty is losing/wasting huge amounts of money while in r3e the penalty is losing 10 minutes of time or some reputation points. I know which one of the two id rather have to suffer from for voluntarily retiring from a race ;)
    To end on a more positive note i guess i could get behind that idea (although of course i dont know how easy to implement itd actually be)
     
  13. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

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    Yeah, you would prefer that. How did you end up with such an alternative anyway? How is it 20 drivers finishing in the first instance and only 15 in the second? How are 5 finishing drivers suddenly gone? Is it because there's no place on the server, because it was taken by more casual drivers, who are more likely to quit? That's what we all want! FULL SERVERS AND MULTIPLE SPLITS!

    You're a damn fool if you prefer the former over the latter. A damn, shortsighted fool, too focused on his own elitist principles to realize the long-term, big-picture benefits of casualizing the ruleset and enticing players who approach simracing differently, more casually than you. I don't try to be pleasant about this, because this mindset is what holds Raceroom back from achieving the critical mass for exactly the races you'd like to have. In order to have 20-something fully committed drivers on one server, you need to have a hundred or something to choose from, majority of them not that committed. You need to make a sim for the latter, not for the former, and then create dedicated splits for the former. That's how population works.

    Lifting this mere rule is surely not enough to make full servers happen, but it's a step in the right direction - less penalties, more incentives. And that was your own made up optimistic full server scenario anyway, not mine. And of these two alternatives, you chose poorly.

    I don't really see a reason to respond to the rest of your post, because we've touched on the essence of the issue right here. But I do appreciate the effort you've put into your response.
     
  14. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I'm against the penalty for disconnect. It only penalises those who have unintended disconnects and does nothing to prevent rage quit. The definition of rage quit is you don't care what happens. Quitting early already has enough penalty for a driver in that you stand to lose rating and rep. No need for an extra kick in the balls for those who have network problems or game crash
     
  15. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Im not trying to argue what r3e should do from a business point (and i couldnt even if i wanted to). Im only talking about my experiences and why given things as they are at the moment im not opposed to quitting being penalised (although you wont see me complain about it if it does get changed at some point). What happens in 5 years if this or that is done today obviously matters to the game (and of course i generally want it to do well) but chances are i wont even be driving anymore in 5 years so id rather enjoy what i can have now versus not enjoy it and possibly have something better in the future that ill never use
    One is a scenario with 20 committed drivers, one is a scenario with more total drivers (which you say would be a consequence of not penalising quitting) but more of them using their right to quit (afterall thats what led to them joining in the first place and is what i see happening in acc for example).
    Cant help enjoying what i enjoy, if that makes me a fool ill have to live with that ;)
    But i dont see where you take from that im super serious about my simracing (if i was id be spending my time racing in leagues). In fact a lot of the time even ranked multiplayer isnt casual enough for me because ill have to do qualifying and (on non rookie servers) practice and work on a setup beforehand. Id much rather just jump in and race.
    And as far as completely casual players go, anybody can download r3e for free and straight away hop onto a multiplayer server. How much more enticing is it supposed to get for casuals? I mean the whole point of the ranked races is that theyre not as casual as a normal public server
    I mean to have 20 committed drivers on one server you only need those 20 drivers and then make sure you dont have too many casual drivers taking up the slots that are available (which can be done by penalising quitting until only those willing to finish will join) but yeah itd obviously be a lot better to have more players and then create splits
     
  16. Stelcio

    Stelcio Active Member

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    @Nico Kunze

    Ok, I've reread your previous comments, read the most recent one and I think I see where our disagreement actually is. I think we're actually arguing about two different things.

    I was asking about what's wrong with players leaving ranked races unpenalized from a long-term perspective of developing an attractive competitive ranked system.

    You answered what's wrong with players leaving ranked races from a driver's perspective who doesn't look beyond the race they're in.

    So what I think happened is that you simply answered a wrong question, probably because I didn't phrase it precisely enough. That led me to treat your answer from my long-term perspective and consider it outrageous, even though from your short-term perspective it makes perfect sense.

    Here's another one. If you crash and are unable to continue racing, you need to stay on the server for the rest of the race, or you will get penalized for disconnecting as well. At this point you're just a dead weight for the server, but the game still wants you to stay and "serve your time".

    This rule is just straight up stupid - inefficient in what it's supposed to do and detrimental in several other ways on top of that.
     
  17. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i think thats what happened :D
    If your original question was already aimed at a long term development then i just didnt get that (although tbh i still dont see anything that wouldve indicated it) but glad we could clear up the misunderstanding :)