Hello everyone, new forum member here. I've picked up RRE only recently, but I've been running other racing sims such as iRacing, AssettoCorsa, Rfactor2 for a while now, so not a complete beginner. One thing that I'm finding strange is the amount of grip I have in RRE compared to other sims. I've been really into vintage racing for the past few months and have been running 60's- 80's cars in AssettoCorsa for fun. I've picked up NSU TTS in RRE. Now my experience running it is that I am getting A LOT more grip than what I was expecting and comparing to other sims. The car just refuses to slide. I've run both Soft and Hard tires. It is a little bit more slidey on Hard but not by much. Now, I'm not looking to drift this car, but with any other sim the tire behavior is a lot more loose, and RRE it feels like the car is glued to the surface and I actively have to work to brake the grip. All assists are OFF. Am I doing something wrong? Is this car/tire combo just that grippy? Is this a normal RRE's behavior with its physics and tire modeling? Really appreciate some feedback from the community. I'm struggling to put my feelings on this, if I like it or not. I do miss the four wheel slides of the mini from AssettoCorsa, but the AI is leagues better in RRE so trying to get used to this sim as the offline racing is excellent with the ai here.
Yes this is pretty well-established behaviour of the RaceRoom tyre models. Even a car like the NSU TTS feels glued to the road. Some diehards will soon appear swearing they can drift AWD cars with enough power oversteer or that actually race cars on slick tyres can't possibly drift, the rest will tell you that sliding/drifting in RaceRoom is pretty much non-existent and to just live with it.
Not sure what to make of these comments, they make me feel like I'm doing sth fundamentally wrong because whenever I'm driving the NSU it slides more or less all the time. I don't mean full-blown drifts but for me it doesn't take much to make this thing (try to) go sideways. If somebody asked me to describe the NSU, "glued to the track" is pretty much the opposite of what'd come to my mind.
Exactly my experience Christian ! Maybe they expect power sliding from a 120hp car on track tires, which will never happen of course
Thank you very much, I'll take this as a huge compliment. This is exactly how it's supposed to behave. The NSU has a reputation as a giant killer in hillclimbs and mixed class events because of it's superb road holding. Driving any race car in the dry, no matter how old, isn't ever supposed to feel like you're skating around with a wet bar of soap under each tyre. Before taking over the handling behaviour of the cars in RaceRoom I raced all manor of things for many years. I also spent nearly a decade earning a living by teaching what I'd learnt racing to other people on track days. When I started here I had I always observed is that most of the major sims felt far too vague and floaty in their road holding. In the real world a racing tyre grabs hard on to the surface which gives you the confidence to push on. It doesn't wash over it in a vague floaty way, unless something is very wrong such as tyre pressures or they're well past their use by date.
Please keep in mind that I'm coming into this conversation with the mindset of switching between multiple simulators, and the my experience is relative to those other sims. Loading anything similar in the power-band in any other simulator outside of RRE, the grip of the tires is much less and its much easier to break the traction. Now this is not a criticism of RRE, I'm just trying to understand if this is an inherited behavior of the sim or if I'm doing something wrong with my setup, be that my hardware and FFB or potentially even the car setup itself, as I haven't changed anything and running stock.
Alex, thank you for your comment, this helps. I don't mind RRE's behavior, I was just curious because the feel was so much more different compared to other sims.
Have a watch of some of the cars running on youtube and compare to what you're seeing in RR: Pay close attention particularly to areas where traction is limited like the start and leaving hairpins .
@STIL550 Test drive the German Nationals if you don´t own them. Those are probably the cars with least lateral grip vs power in the game and I think are on road tyres too. The Greenwood Corvette is similar and the BMW 635 Tourer is another good option but these are all longer wheelbase mid to high powered vehicles. The KTM X Bow is there but RRE is missing a compact lightweight front-engined rear-drive car like the Caterham or BMW 2002 in AMS2. With less than 200hp and semi slicks you could slide or drift them all day long albeit RRE is not great for drifting compared with many other games and you can´t modify track grip.
Of course it makes a difference what one picks as their point of reference. If those other titles you're used to have a generally lower grip level it's no surprise RR feels different, for the reasons Alex laid out above. Yet, some statements in the first two posts go beyond the objective, like being used to sth different, imo. "The car just refuses to slide" and "feels glued to the road" are pretty subjective statements of fact and I simply can't agree with them because, as I said above, they are more or less the opposite of what I'm experiencing, especially with the NSU. In general, cars in Raceroom are always designed as race cars, meaning they come equipped as their real life racing spec counterpart would. I can imagine especially tyres being a major difference, almost all our cars are fitted with racing slicks, even the classic cars run on tyres that are meant to replicate old cross-ply treads. If those cars you mentioned from other titles are designed to be road cars with road tyres then of course it makes sense for them to have lower grip levels. I believe our approach to be the better one, but of course all those other devs have their reasons to do it the way they are. I'd say as "players" we can be happy that there's so much variety. Imagine how dull simracing would be if all sims felt exactly the same.
A quick follow up question. As I'm getting a bit more hours into this sim, I'm slowly expanding into other cars. I got relatively comfortable (not fast) with the NSU to have fun with the AI, so decided to switch to something else to start learning a new car in parallel. I'm now in Porsche 911 Carrera (964), running laps at Brands Hatch. I'm running stock car setup, so haven't touched the gear ratios nor to be honest, plan to. I'm running my fastest laps when I have the car revving at the top of its limit 6-7k rpm through most of the tight corners, which means I'm downshifting all the way down to 2nd gear for almost every corner on that track. If I stay in 3rd, I keep under-steering, or loosing too much speed through the corner. It seems there is quite a lot of engine breaking modeled into Carrera, so downshifting all the way down to the 2nd gear gets me a nice tight turn with a good exit. The issue it seems, that with the full damage on, when running these corners in 2nd gear and constantly up/down shifting, I'm burning through either my clutch or the gearbox itself, and by lap 7 or 8, I'm starting to miss shifts and what feels like clutch slipping and the car is running rough. Am I just not smooth enough on the gear transitions, or am I running too low of a gear for these corners?
You're downshifting too early, let the revs drop before you shift. Also at Brands you definitely don't need 2nd gear for most corners. Being a Porsche you have to drive it like a porsche. Brake hard in straight lines (it has abs so no worry about locking up), get the front tyres loaded and the car turned and be early on the gas (there's loads of rear grip since the weight of the engine hangs there).
anyone with a driving licence can tell you cars don't float over the road like in most sims, even road cars, now imagine having huge fat slicks on a purpose built race car
Not that i disagree with your conclusion but asking "normal" people isnt the way to get there. Somebody driving exclusively on public roads technically should not have any idea of what a car at the limit of grip feels like (perhaps unless theyve done a fahrsicherheitstraining (no idea what theyre called in english plus its just a nice word )) so asking them about that situation wont give you any useful info
While you might think it's funny to use some obscure german words, nobody apart from germans will have any clue what you're even talking about (unless all of them use a translator, which you could have done yourself in the first place). For all the non-germans: "Fahrsicherheitstraining" can literally be translated to "driving safety training" which is not only literal, but also gives a good idea what this is about. I'm sure something like this also exists in other countries, but just in case: it's a training for "normal" drivers with normal road cars that is supposed to give the participants a feel for the physics of their cars and where the limits are and what happens at those limits. This obviously happens on special environments where nothing serious can happen. There ususally are big areas with tarmac where you can't hit anything. Driving slalom around cones and braking hard are part of these trainings. Also a forced aquaplaning by heavily watering the tarmac is trained. In modern times also the interference of the different driving aids is forced to make the participants familiar with how it feels when this happens. One thing I can especially remember from the training I took part in, was testing the stopping distance at 50 compared to 30 km/h. The difference is actually quite drastic. When you take average human reaction times into account, and do the math, it turns out that you are already stopped when driving with 30 km/h at about the same distance you just start to actually brake with 50 km/h. The whole training was avery good experience altogether I must say.
I did quickly check the translation before posting but it seemed very literal and i have no idea whether such events are widely known under that literal name and since it was only a side remark i didnt bother doing more research. But thanks for taking the time to explain it to those who didnt know (and didnt feel like looking it up)
Well judging from my amateur rally/Time Attack experiences, I'd say that the best thing about raceroom is that cars actually behave like they are on racing tires and not something taken straight from a junkyard (like in AC). Seriously, most sims go for the "if it's hard to drive, it's realistic" approach. Which is completely wrong. When I first put full slick tires on my Honda, I was astonished how much grip they provide, and how easy it was to drive the car on such tires. It's only when I tried really pushing for laptimes and finding the limit that the challenge started. And that's how it is in raceroom - if you're not going totally flat out, then the cars are easy to control. Unlike in AC where it feels like driving on ice regardless of how hard you push - seriously, the tire model in that game makes no sense at all - keeping tire temperatures on a good level is a lot more difficult than in real life. Only once have I driven in real life on a tire that is as sh*t as the ones in AC - the Kumho TM02, which is a rally spec semi slick. It was hopeless when cold, gave some grip when warm and then immediately overheated and was again hopeless. It seems AC modeled it's tire behavior on that piece of junk. Fortunately in real life I could switch to the Cooper DT1 for events that ban full slicks, and start winning
You should try AC on tire model 10 and extended car physics then make an objective judgement in my opinion I don’t know how one could suggest cars in AC run on ice to be honest except if that’s for bashing the Game but hey everyone entitled to an opinion I guess especially on Sim forums
I am speaking about tire model 10. I don't know anything about this extended car physics thing you mention though.
I don't want to deviate from the purpose of this thread and by respect for the OP but here you go gyro effect that could be activated in an ini fil before CM arrives and get this feature built in the UI additionally steering forces and suspension tweaks in the same section shown above were implemented finally specific extension physics per car as shown here, in particular affecting tire behaviour in wet conditions