Hello, Curious as to other players thoughts, observations on the new tire model? I have only a couple of hours with the new model and really only with Tatus F4, since I'm overjoyed to see it back in Multi Player, I've pretty much dedicated myself to that of late. What I've experienced is a lot more grip, sharper turn in, and it is much easier to "save" a spin. Close racing has never been better, since you can go off the racing line with more confidence. However I do notice I'm wearing my fronts out much faster, likely my bad driving, but even though I'm wearing them out faster I don't notice the same level of performance drop that the old model had. Also have noticed my previous fuel calculations are off a little bit, likely because I'm on throttle faster and way more, some corners that I couldn't take flat out on the old model I now can. Example being Dunlop on Suzuka , also able to brake later going into the Casio. Turn 1 at Brands is no longer an "Anus Clenching" experience too! In any case big thanks for KW for their continued support of this game, it is truly my favorite sim. Cheers!
I noticed that too in MX5 at Nords. The last corner before the big straight, previously I needed to be much more precise how I enter it to be able to take it all flat out, now the car can just turns in more. MX5 is more lively and at the same time more controllable, at all stages of the corner. Braking is more detailed now, it's not a gradual slowing down as before, but feels like something is happening down there. That's on a wheel. On keyboard it's simply a different game now, car's behavior and reaction to controls is completely different - not sure if I like it or not.
Yes, I am also feeling this 'more front end grip' thing. I don't know, it just feels a bit too 'direct' to be realistic now, to me. I've tried the Tatuus F4, and a few GT3, DTM '13, '20 cars and they all have this extra 'front direct feel', as if they have a bit too much front grip to be honest. In each case, I have felt the need to go into the garage and reduce the steering lock by 2 or 3 clicks to try and compensate. It's not really the right thing to do, but it does take the edge off it a bit. I'm not a professional racing driver, but I did some club racing in an MG Midget years ago, also raced karts, and have driven many different cars on track and road, so I do have a reasonable experience of what feels real. I love this sim, and I am excited that the tyre physics are being updated, but right now I feel this is taking the edge off my enjoyment. I have a lot of time and money invested in R3E, so I really hope I start to feel more positive again. (EDIT My post makes it seem really bad - it is NOT. I'm still enjoying it, but there is something there that I felt the need to comment on, something that just doesn't quite feel correct, a feeling of too much front end).
I haven't tried, as it is the default feeling that I was looking at, I've just been trying various cars to see if I get the same feeling in all of them. It's that default setup that I feel is 'off' somehow. Don't get me wrong, it is only a slight feeling, overall the new tyres feel great. I just get this feeling that turn in is too direct, and it's also noticeable on the exits, when it should be time to start applying the throttle it is more necessary to take extra care to avoid a snap of extra grip/oversteer. I'm not saying the behaviour is wrong, just that it's possibly too exaggerated to feel real. But that's just my observation so far, might be me just getting used to the new tyres. But I'd be interested to know if anyone else is feeling the same, or is everyone completely happy with the front end of these new tyres? I mean, there's no doubt it is generally grippier and quicker round the bends, so it would be easy to accept it and be happy to go faster, but is it actually realistic?
This simply sounds like whatever you were driving had too much rear or too little front anti-roll bar stiffness. Try reducing the rear and/or increasing the front.
Thanks Alex, I've been trying them all on their default setups. Softening the rear is certainly one of the first things I would generally try, I suppose I was just expecting the 'new defaults' to be a tiny bit more 'neutral' than they are, & similar to the old versions. But after lots of laps today in DTM'13 & '20 BMWs & a Taatus F4, I have been getting used to the new feel, & I might have jumped the gun with my initial feelings.
I think I can support your point in that there is a bit more initial turn in on a lot of cars at lower speeds. Once you get used to it you just adapt but it was noticeable at first coming from the previous version. Corner exit seems improved in terms of balance and grip and there is just a lot less twitchiness and random losses of grip than there used to be. Cars tried; MX5, DTM92s, GTOs, Touring Classics, Silhouettes
Sounds like you're struggling with braking overall. It's much different now and is more sensitive. Try braking less hard in general or reduce brake pressure in car setup. Or you can adjust your brake pedal settings, I moved my upper brake deadzone higher so when I brake with the same force as before I'm not getting 100% braking.
BMW M235i feels great, no braking issues, didn't even have to adjust AI level from previous Nissan GT-R GT3 on the other hand...to me it seems like the ABS kicks in too early, so still struggling with that one
Yes, I'm sure there is just a bit too much to be real in some cases - don't ask me which ones as I've tried many cars in the last week and I've got myself confused, but several feel this way now. I have got used to it, and I AM still enjoying this sim, but with this new 'feeling' and after reading various other comments about braking and AI behaviour, I am slightly concerned that the changes may have upset so many things that it might take an eternity or never be put right - I fear there are so many cars and tracks that it would be impossible to re-tune them all back to some kind of consistent level. I really hope that is not the case. (I mean, is there really any incentive for devs to actually go back to, for example, the DTM 2013 cars, to tweak them? I for one, regularly drive any one of the older cars as much as the new, so I'd hate to think they were not given the same care in 're-balancing' them when these 'blanket' updates are added). Computer gaming is littered with examples of that one final big update that ruins a game just as developers decide to move on to their next title. Please don't let R3E be one of them.
Thanks Ravey, I'm sure you are right, and I do not intend to sound negative. It's only because I enjoy this sim so much that I feel this apprehension. But I know that all cars and tracks have been taken care of over the years, so I look forward to this continuing for a good few years yet.
I found that moving brake balance back a few points makes this car much more willing to rotate even under ABS. Also, not sure if it was like that before, but cars are quite sensitive to BB when you're around a neutral "just enough rotation" point, even one or two clicks change the car balance quite noticeably. Types of corner and your tyres condition also affect it a lot, you need to account for that too if you want to keep the car balance neutral.
After testing a few cars I think that while overall handling is great and especially the play on the edge while cornering or throttling is great, one thing that became a mess is braking. And by mess I mean some cars are fine, some are sketchy and some are pretty much broken. I found braking particularily hard to nail down in DMD P20. It seems like there's just no point running 100% brake pressure on it unless your braking foot has surgical precision. I also found braking in Audi R8 LMS GT3 EVO pretty tricky - not as almost impossible as in P20, but significantly treacherous and pretty easy to mess up. But there wouldn't be anything particularily alarming with this, if this was the new consistent philosophy of Raceroom. Maybe the dev team found that braking does need to be that tricky, and 100% input is almost not to be used. Ok, fine. But I also tried DTM Mercedes 2014, Formula 3 and X-17. And they all were pretty happy with my crude "stomp and gradually release into corner" approach, they didn't step out violently, expecting some super-precise and super-cautious input in the braking zone. It really took some work and pushing to overcook it, and thus they encouraged braking into corners, attacking. Very pleasant drives, all three. And we're talking about high performance prototypes/single-seaters being more driver-friendly than a GT3 car equipped with ABS and an endurance racer. It will be hard to convince me that this is how it's supposed to be. It doesn't seem to be an issue with tyre model per se, but with how it seems to interfere with brakes in some cars, so maybe brakes just need a tuning pass across the board.
I am pretty happy with the changes, especially on the older cars as it has allowed me to use stuff like the 90s F1s, Greenwood, DTM92 Rwds and Touring classics without the breaks in traction on acceleration that ruined them for me before. I see that a lot of cars, especially with ABS, have the BB pushed way back on default setup, so much so that the "normal" 60/40 split is now closer to 50/50, which seems like an unrealistic real world value apart from cars with the engine in the rear. The only car I have found to be broken beyond use is the DTM92 Audi, try it on even the flattest of kerbs and it will want to roll over - not the normal behaviour for a heavy car with a long wheelbase and the other DTM92s are not affected. The new track limits are much more intrusive, however, and on tracks like Spa it is really hard to set valid times, especially when racing as there are so many corners where the accepted line is no longer valid and deviating is just weird.
Apparently it's not unrealistic. https://forum.kw-studios.com/index.php?threads/brake-bias-explained.17875/ As Alex said once, 50/50 BB means braking system was designed properly.
Same for the Nissan Skyline GTR R32; even at very low speed, it will roll over if you try to use the kerbs in the chicane at Suzuka (same at Degner). Really weird for such a car.