Hello everyone. Fun race last night. I wanted to make a couple of comments and clarify a few things. For starters, in Race 1 I blasted my gearbox by forgetting to turn on autoclutch. I usually like to race the vintage cars with my H pattern shifter and H&T so I leave AC off. I forgot to turn it back on yesterday because I was distracted by other, more important things and I paid the price. Kudos to Sector 3 for building such a strong simulation of a gearbox turning itself into metal shavings. I actually tried to compensate by using my sequential shifter and H&T clutch instead of paddles (Which I often use anyway because while being slower, it helps me settle down and get the right gears, track in and track out, etc.) but by then it was too late and I was already losing seconds per lap until I was left with 2 or 3 grears available at the most, clutch or not. In race 2 I was involved in a 3 or 4 car mess at the hairpin and I was on the losing end of it. In watching the reply I realized that the car behind me never actually touched me. The netcode thought so though and it gave me a bump. Then on the rebound, once again something went wrong with the netcode and a simple brush to my front fender actually launched my car off track. If you watch it from an external angle you can tell that IRL at worse the bodywork would have absorbed the impact but barely would have moved my car at all, instead of sending me toward the wall with the energy it did. IRL the whole mess probably wouldn't have happened, at least not that way. Sucks for me. The moral here is to be careful and try to leave a good 3 or 4 feet from the car in front if at all possible. As far as blocking and unpenalized off tracks, it's a shame this game is not as advanced as the old GTR2 was. There we could actually have drive through for those that cut or overshoot more than X times on the same turn. So it gave you a chance the first couple of times, but would eventually punish you. I think that's better than the silly slow down penalty this game has, at least in a league environment. I hope most of you enjoyed the racing. I saw a lot of good things and some bad things, but that's to be expected. After all, if we were pro drivers, we'd be racing elsewhere. On another, final note, I have a hard time recognizing my teammates during the race. Unfortunately, I am bad with names to begin with and I am really bad at remembering them while racing. Plus, I dislike seeing names floating above cars, as they distract from the simulation. I was wondering if maybe the next set of races, it was possible for a team to share a livery and use the same car. Or maybe if there was a way to put the team name before our names in the game, if only for the race itself. I think sharing a car and a livery would be the most realistic. It's a shame that the creators of this game decided to make liveries a profit source, rather than allowing us to have our own liveries. It's silly really. But I am open for suggestions.
I don't disagree, but look what happened? Did you think he was going to let you by there? He as going take the same line as the laps before. I say that from the perspective of what is one to do on that corner? 99% of the time that person behind backs off last minute. He left the door open slightly you took it. You would have had him and or he would have let you by(in theory) shortly after....imo.
I think that is a great idea sharing the same car and livery.... would be soooo much easier to see your team mates in front of you or behind you.... I am definately down with that. Our team is already all BMW's and I am the only RUF.... but going to all BMW and same Livery would be totally cool by me.
I'm not sure about the liveries. The variety in the grid makes a great view, but I wouldn't mind to wear uniform. On the other topic: Want examples of what's not to be done, without controversy? Watch my second race
Take a closer look at video and let's be honest. Yes, I did a hit on you, but look how many hungry lions were pushing me hardly and how close Tim Cannon behind me and how close were the other drivers to him. Braking harder that I did could cause a crash too. I was thinking about too. Secondly, I saw your maneuver and I did hit the brakes as hard as it's possible in that fast corner with taking into account how many and how close were drivers behind me. You can look at my front-left wheel locked before I hit you and take a look at stop-signals of my car. It wasn't the ram and it wasn't a dive, it was a very complex situation. I didn't say “sorry” because we have the rule, no chat during the races. And I don't think that I actually should doing this. As I should stop and wait. There was an argument about Gentlemen's Rule including Conti @ Bathurst. Well I remember that accident and this one is different. Stage @ Suzuka was really intense. Many people did a lot of hits on me. But I understand the fact, that then you pushing yourself to the limits some sort of things are unavoidable. You mad, because you lost the points. I can easily understand you in that. But you should understand all the complexity and the rush.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, mate, but I also provide the facts and different angles to view.
It doesnt matter how much pressure you have behind you, doesnt mean you can make desperate moves on someone. Just learn to be patient and wait for a mistake. Yes you will be passed from the stacking up of cars around you, I got passed quite a few times because of it, but just wait and be patient for the right opportunity to pass again and sometimes there wont be an opportunity. Race 2 of Bathurst I had no opportunity to pass Conti, I made one attempt on the last lap and it didnt work out. I understand the rush and moment of urgency to do something, when your driving study the cars around you and know the track. Doing that will allow you to know where you can drive defensively and where you can relax. As I stated before this race happened I said this was going to be a closer race and incidents will likely happen. Everything I said here is not just to you but to everyone, lets use this to learn from and move on.
Just want to say my point of this view. If this was me causing Kenny to spin, I would have slowed down and let him pass before I would continue the race.
Guys next race is in 6 days. Lets focus on that and move on. There was no official complaints made about these unfortunate events. There will be no further comment/complaining about this here. The matter is closed. Now a note about rule 2.5 2.5 Penalties In case one is found faulty, a Drive Thru penalty will be applied for each infraction committed (to be performed the next Race Session) Now i wish i didn't have to do it , But i need to put a note on rule 2.5 so that it is clear how a penalty could be given. **If an official complaint is raised to the admin of the league, a video evidence will be provided to 5 ESR members. The voting member will be selected randomly from all of the ESR members, Could be a participant or not of the current championship. The 5 voting members will remain anonymous ( please note that Staff/admin are excluded from the voting process)
I'm trying really hard to understand it from your(Lazrenko Yevgeny) perspective. You said it was a very complex situation, so I thought I wasn't fully understanding. I decided to go back and watch your POV from the very start and also those that were behind/near you leading up to the crash. Was Sean Kenneys line out of Spoon/coming onto the straight off? You(Lazrenko) actually ran the same line as Sean almost every lap leading up to the crash. None of the drivers behind you ever treated it as if the door got left open, its the correct line through that turn. It's how you get set up for a good run down the straight. Even if Sean had changed his line to give you more room, you'd still have to check up and ultimately ruin your exit onto the straight. It just seemed like a low race IQ move - you were close enough to set up for a good run off that corner, onto the straight, and have the opportunity at 130R/T1. Very desperate, especially when you consider it was only the half way mark. It's interesting that you consider what he did a "maneuver", implying you were taking evasive action / playing it safe. Previously your line through spoon was the same as Sean's, Sean had a normal line and did nothing wrong. You locked up your brakes because you were going for a gap that wasn't ever there and weren't in control. This is what bothers me the most. It makes it seem like you were being held up by Sean Kenney and everyone was stacked up behind you because of that. Most those cars had been behind you the whole race, Tim Cannon was 0.2s-0.8s behind you for nearly 20 minutes! Watching from his perspective is very telling. There are multiple times over those ~19 minutes where you make more than one move during braking zones / shut the door late. Despite being faster, the entire time he was respectful and raced you cleanly. Yet you didn't do the same for Sean - you were even flashing your lights.. Really? it's not like he was a lapped car. If it were me, I'd have given up positions to everyone involved in the wreck, apologize, and be thankful I didn't receive a penalty. Hopefully it's a learning experience, you can race clean and respectfully, and still be competitive.
Please guys back on track. Let's follow MeMotS directives and move on. No need to make this a huge problem cause seriously it's not. Suzuka was hard on everyone but it's time to move ahead and face Redbull now. Mountains and trees!... And a big pissed off bull on top of the hill! go get him by the horns!
Wondering what others are running at RBR? Would be nice to have a base line time to compare with. Also, are we clearly defining track limits? I know RBR is a track where run off is typically used.
We might introduce the cut penalties for this track as there are two sections that might lead to annoyance during/after the race (T1 and T8). We'll let you know about it. A few of us were on the server yesterday and we were all below 29 (mid/low 28) Stock setup, was more of a reconnaissance session...
Yeah, I was wondering that as well....the first and last turns are heavy run off areas....even T7. Its tough with no real in-race warnings. I couple of us were messing about last night....Mid to low 28's right now. Decent for a first go. I will be happy if I get into the mid 27s at this point. I am terrible in T4, 5 and 6.
This is an important point for obvious reasons. Think carefully about the cut-penalties please, there is no gray area with them, either you get one or not. These penalties does not judge the cause, it only reacts to effect and thus are unreliable and potentially unfair. I say this because I can easily see situations where the "wrong" car gets punished if auto-penalties is on, exactly this has happened to me multiple times on RBR. Lets say me and you are going down the straight side by side Emilio, I have the inside line into T1. During T1 we are still side by side, but to maintain grip and some speed I must start to ease off on my steering input or I will spin. When this happens the car that is on the outside line can easily be "pushed out" outside the track. Meaning that if you get a penalty or not is completely up to me and if I choose to give you the space you need (sacrificing my corner exit speed for fairness to you) Perhaps a bad explanation but my point is: I try to overtake you into T1 (inside line), you make no mistake and leave space for me, YOU will still be the one risking a penalty even though I am the one trying to make/force the pass, its pretty much out of your control unless you give me the pass without challenging before T1. This doesnt ever become a problem as long as everyone leaves the appropriate amount of space, but in a race situation where we are all pushing as hard as we can I can still see it happening by mistake or stress, and it would be really terrible if the "innocent" guy gets punished for it. Leaving the cut-penalties off however creates a whole host of other problems as we cannot guarantee consistency, where exactly do we "draw the line" as to "you cut that turn too much", we would also have to enforce that theoretical invisible line and make sure every single car didnt cross it, what would be the penalty for crossing it etc, it becomes complicated quickly. This post wasnt meant to be this long so sorry for that ^^ TL;DR: im sceptical to cut-penalties
Very good points Oberg, but as I read I couldn’t help but remember the conversations about Suzuka (sorry for bringing it up, I promise I have a reason!!!). The situation you explained is plausible but if everyone takes the lessons we tried to learn from Suzuka, shouldn’t the attacker back off in T1 and wait until T2 to try that pass? I think the concern of people getting innocently pushed off is real, but shouldn’t we be exercising a bit more caution based on SKRO's citing of the Gentlemen rule? This is not meant to contradict you. With all that said, im not sure where I stand on the Cut Track penalties. I think im with you Oberg.
Both good points. I agree, its though. I think defining the limits of the turns and the penalty that would be administered upon a defined repeated crossing should create enough of a definition and deterrent for people to use.
I couldnt agree more! As I said this shouldnt ever become a problem as long as everyone keeps to the gentlemen agreement and dont push outside their boundaries. If this was in-race and not a theoretical example, I wouldve 100% not tried to pass because T1 is not the safest place to do so, trying a pass in T1 is pretty much guaranteed to make both cars take the corner slower, and ofcourse less speed on the following straight, keeping race line and using the slipstream to pass in T2 is far far safer and a much better idea as you say! So I completely agree with you that hopefully this doesnt even come up as a problem, but also if it does happen it is absolutely devastating to the player who recieved the slow-down punishment. Imagine almost having to come to a stop to get rid of that pesky penalty, after T1 on that max-speed straight, you would loose god damn 20 places from that shit and on top of that, the penalty wasnt even your fault!!?!? if anything would get me annoyed it would probably be that ^^ I dont exactly know where I stand on it either, maybe some others have opinions for/against these penalties, im all for more discussion and arguments =)
My take on it. I am 100% against a cut rule at all. As I always want to believe in the spirit of the sport and gentleman agreement that would not be abused. I would hate for anyone to get a drive throught penalty because they were trying to be nice and avoid a crash. So i am leaving this up to you guys. The slow-down is unrealistic and dangerous. The drive-throught is a race killer for anyone who made a mistake, deserving or not. So please let me know privately in a message(Don't want to clutter this thread even more) Do you want : no cutting rule at all(stay the course) Do you want simple slow down penalty. Or do you want a drive throught penalty. I will take the next 3 or 4 days to get those responses and we will advise on Thursday or Friday day ( at least 24 hours before the race )