When using manual sequential gears is a clutch necessary?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by seriousnewb, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. seriousnewb

    seriousnewb New Member

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    Random question. I'm using an old DFGT (with mod for paddles) and the stock pedals i.e. no clutch.

    If I was at some point to invest in an upgrade, say a T300 RS should I look at the basic 2 pedal set or the variants that include the T3PA?

    DiRT Rally added a "clutch override" option during early access and in RaceRoom there's an automatic clutch option, which I assumed I should leave enabled.

    As far as I know WRC cars often include a physical clutch, used at stage starts only? No idea on modern DTM or GT cars.

    Do people recommend getting a T300 RS with the T3PA so you'll have option to add a H pattern later?

    I can't imagine using a clutch when shifting sequentially. Nowadays automatic transmission cars (with electronic clutch I guess) often include the option to shift sequentially instead. At least my neighbor drives a Volvo that has such an option.
     
  2. Chocoloco

    Chocoloco Member

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    I'd go for the T3PA pedals. They come with a simple brake mod which allows to train your muscle memory, makes for much more accurate and easier braking. Not the same as a load cell but those come at a much higher price tag.
    In my country you can find a lot of almost new T500RS for around 300-350€ on ebay Kleinanzeigen, a service similar to craigslist. Might be worth considering, depending on where you're from.

    Regarding DR, a clutch allows for much better cornering as you can use it to break traction and induce a power slide. Especially needed when you drive the old Group B cars in a realistic fashion without use of the handbrake. You can also accelerate much faster by keeping the revs high during corners or when accelerating from stand.

    While clutch doesn't seem to be properly implemented in R3E, it's quite essential in DiRT Rally.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  3. seriousnewb

    seriousnewb New Member

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    I've seen references to this T3PA break mod, what is it exactly? A piece of foam, rubber or tennis ball behind the pedal or something?

    The paddles on the T500 are not on the wheel, which doesn't appear to make much sense or? The T500 is maybe a bit old at this point, although no older than the DFGT. Yes there are local ebay types things here in Finland too. That's where I found the DFGT and wheel stand pro ;)
     
  4. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    How long have you been driving\racing newb? Are you sure your commited enough to go and blow a shedload of money on equipment that may get little or no use in 6mths time?
     
  5. Chocoloco

    Chocoloco Member

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    The brake mod consists of a conical rubber piece on the T3PA.
    The T500 might be a bit older and does not have brushless motors like the T300 does, that's true. But it has the T3PA-pro pedals which are a lot better than T3PA imo. For sure the materials look more high-grade (it's all metal and weights about 7kg I think), and you can mount them hanging or standing. The brake mod here consists of a thick rubber piece in combination with a spring, and can be adjusted in resistance. I don't know if that's the case on the T3PA too.
    The paddles on the T500 are quite large, so you shouldn't miss them. Only when you switch from a wheel with turning paddles it takes some time to get used to. When using dor over 400 imo static paddles are better. However I use a Leather 28GT wheel so I have both paddles available. In tight turns I usually reach for the static paddles. Both have pros and cons.

    You can always sell those wheels with little to no loss so it's better imo than going cheap. In my country, prices for the T500 have been fluctuating from 350 to over 500€ new in the last 12 month. When new racing games come out, prices always go up by quite a margin'. Buying now would be a smart move when you're not under pressure to sell it at a specific point in time and can wait until prices go up (if you even want to sell it that is) Of course I have no idea how prices behave in Finland.

    A good wheel might well be the reason to get one hooked on driving games in the first place. Since OP is already using a wheel the targeted price range seems to be the next logical upgrade. (I personally don't believe in old Logitech wheels) Switching from an old MOMO to a T500 sure did the trick for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  6. seriousnewb

    seriousnewb New Member

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    Sorry not really sure on the exact point of your question. I'm in no rush to spend any more money. I only wanted to understand the differences in setups as in most cases people are using or recommneding a clutch and H-shifter.

    I got talking to a guy at work who it turns out had an old Logitech Momo and was considering a T300 RS. He ordered a Rift and will need to upgrade is PC GPU as well so I advised him to look at a DFGT to begin with, he found one second hand as is taking home this evening. Assuming its not broken inside, he reckons it will do him for a while. And the same for me.

    I was somehow thinking that use of clutch and H-pattern would make you faster but obviously not just wanted to understand the differences so if at sometime I decide to upgrade, after I'm learning to drive the Nordschleife blindfolded and the DFGT is falling apart, I'll know what to look for..
     
  7. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    Sorry my bad, didnt really read it properly :(
     
  8. seriousnewb

    seriousnewb New Member

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    No worries... I guess use of H-pattern and clutch depends on the game and the specific vehicle. The hardcore games will penalise for use of auto clutch perhaps or may technically cause you to drive slower?

    I had somehow gotten the impression that I was slow in for example DiRT Rally as I didn't have a clutch and shifter. But sure there are people play it on game pads and KB & mouse. The latter which is incredible but I guess it takes all sorts.. Anyway it's probably just that I'm a sh!t driver overall ;)
     
  9. Chocoloco

    Chocoloco Member

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    I think h-pattern is just for realism in certain cars, but it hardly will make you faster. More the opposite. Clutch on the other hand is very useful, but you could just bind that to any button you want to.
     
  10. seriousnewb

    seriousnewb New Member

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    True. I guess clutch is better in an axis than a button though.

    I've enabled the clutch override in DiRT but I'm not so sure how it helps. I've heard it referred to as clutch kick. I guess it works better for older cars that would IRL have been manual anyway.

    In any game, such as RRE of course in this case should I be holding down a clutch on a standing start or for a modern touring car does it make any difference.

    Oh forgot, I have had stalls after crashes or spinning out in DiRT, I literally forget to use the clutch (button) or I'm just not able to react fast enough... ;)
     
  11. Shenmue_X

    Shenmue_X Member

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    Don't know for GT but F1 drivers have to use the clutch at the start since FIA banned electronics in 2000's. Two clutch paddles to press successively at a very precise timing.
     
  12. Supermini

    Supermini Member

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    It keeps the power up in the corners. Say you gear down and slide into a tight corner. While the car is rotating, press the clutch and keep giving it gas. Now the engine will keep revving (and you'll stay on boost if there's a turbo), but since it's not connected to the wheels at the moment it won't affect your motion. When you're pointing the right direction, let go of the clutch, and all those revs will go straight to the wheels and shoot you out of of there. FWIW I use a gamepad and have the clutch on LB in Dirt Rally.
     
  13. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Well-Known Member

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    My understanding from research I did is that at least GT3 and F1 have auto clutch. However, clutch is still used for start. So, I personally use clutch only for start and in older cars (DTM 1992), or anywhere I'd use H-shifter.
     
  14. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    I would love to hear more on one of the OP original questions regarding which classes or types of cars actually use a clutch and if they use it to start or just shift.

    I suppose I'm after a comprehensive list, which I realize is asking a lot!!