Question Fading Brakes?

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by Pfalzdriver, May 24, 2016.

  1. Pfalzdriver

    Pfalzdriver Well-Known Member

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    Morning,

    Last Friday we had our latest community race with the Audi TT at Bathurst, and a bunch of guys reported fading brakes after around 30 minutes of racing.

    Nearly all of the guys with this problem had the brakes highly front biased, like 60/40 or 63/37, so I started to wonder, is there really brake wear at R3E? Personally I didnt have this problem, maybe because I used a pretty neutral setting of 55/45.

    The reason I'm asking, there isnt an option to repair the brakes while pitting, like it is done at another sim, and due to the real life event of the greatest race in the world next weekend, we are planing to race the Nords for 90 minutes this friday. And I'm wondering if this makes sense. Wont be fun anymore if you try racing the Nords without working brakes.
     
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  2. Hannes Wallstedt

    Hannes Wallstedt Well-Known Member

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    There is a little bit of brake wear, but it is quite slow.

    Some things that sound like more plausible culprits are tire wear or having picked up dirt on their tires before the brake zone. Since the TT's have ABS a loss of traction will result in reduced brake effect in order to prevent locking.
     
  3. Vojvoda

    Vojvoda Well-Known Member

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    Could be brakes overheating?
     
  4. Pfalzdriver

    Pfalzdriver Well-Known Member

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    I would understand culprit or dirt, Hannes. But it occured to our own alien, too. So with culprit and/or dirt he would have been a lill slower for maybe one round, but not for the rest of the race.
    And he stated afterwards, he was pushing his car to close the gap to the leader, and from one minute to the other he had to brake around 100 metres earlier, because his brakes were gone, though his tires were still fine. :)

    Video of that race is available here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=btsx773Gqlw

    Check the time delay of position #2 at 31:40 and 37:40, and this guy is really fast. Check his name at the leaderboards yourself. :)

    Edit:
    This could be a reason indeed. But on the other hand, the race was at Bathurst. All the way up to the mountain you dont use the brake at all, so it should cool down enough. But maybe it is really the huge amount of front biased braking. Good for a fast lap, bad for an entire race. :)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  5. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    But it looks like it was only this one person? Sounds suspicious...sure there wasn't sth up with his hw, pedals maybe?
     
  6. Pfalzdriver

    Pfalzdriver Well-Known Member

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    No, No, No. At least three or four reported problems with the brakes afterwards. :)
     
  7. Karsten Borchers

    Karsten Borchers KW Studios Developer

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    We did some quick testing on disc wear on the TT around Bathurst yesterday.
    After 60 laps, it would have 89.7% disc thickness Front, and 83.5% rear.
    15 laps would be 97.4% and 95.9%.

    So I seriously doubt there is a brake wear issue. Sounds more to me, like Hannes already stated, that its tyre wear induced. The Brake effect gets reduced with ABS to prevent locking the brakes, and when the wear has gone over a cliff, Im guessing it could feel like the brakes have no effect anymore.
    The TT tires dont really have a long lifespan in our game. Basically just 'designed' for TT Cup distances, so just about 30 min, depending on track and driver.
     
  8. Popo28

    Popo28 New Member

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    I had the brake problem. As an example in my last round i could press the break to the limit and even the car accelerates with gear 3 on.
    it cost me the victory.
     
  9. J-F Chardon

    J-F Chardon KW Studios Developer

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    Was there a pitstop performed when this happened to you @Popo28 ?

    Any circumstancial information would be welcome to try and find out what this is all about.
     
  10. Popo28

    Popo28 New Member

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    Yes, one pitstop after 18 minutes. As I had the problem all tires are white and it happend about 10 Minutes after the pitstop.
    In my memory , it came from one minute to the next.
     
  11. m.bohlken

    m.bohlken Well-Known Member

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    hm, sounds a bit like an issue with the Pedal-Calibration or Signal, as you told that the car was accelerating in 3rd-gear while braking and that it happen suddenly.

    Did you experience any lag or stuttering during the race or when it had happend? have you done another race after that race without starting R3E new?
     
  12. Popo28

    Popo28 New Member

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    No lag or stuttering. No other race without starting R3E again. At least three or four reported problems with the brakes afterwards.
     
  13. Pfalzdriver

    Pfalzdriver Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to have the tool you've used to get this data. :)

    And I'm happy Popo28 entered this thread, because he mainly had this problem.

    I thought about the tires myself as a reason for this, so I pushed the tires yesterday to the limit. Though it was the Lada Vesta and the track was the Nords, 24h version. It is a front wheel driven car too, and it has no ABS, so imho it was a nice little vehicle for testing.
    I pushed the car as hell for three laps, and within lap #3 my tires went yellow. No problem here, I even didnt expect them to last that long. At this point I've expected some brake wear, but instead of brake wear I got a speed problem. Within the first two laps, the Lada accelerated up to 237km/h at the "Kesselchen", with a rear wing set to seven, and up to 256km/h at the "Döttinger," crossing the mark of 260 easily at the last "downhill part" at the end of the "Döttinger."
    At the third lap with this set of tires, I was around 10km/h slower in each part of the track mentioned above, but the brakes were still working as they should. And No, I didnt hit anything, so no Aero-Damage at all, and I didnt notice any significant wheelspin while accelerating.
    I've had a similar problem around three weeks ago with Pro ... No, I dont wanna name it, where it was indeed a problem with my CSW v2. A sensor was a lill off. So I immitiately checked the calibration yesterday and all was fine.
     
  14. mr_belowski

    mr_belowski Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    you sure you hadn't damaged the engine on that test? Manual gears + bouncing off the limiter (except when you're in top gear) = small amounts of engine damage. It can slow you a fair bit after a few laps.

    The brake damage data is in the shared memory [edit] no it isn't...
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  15. Pfalzdriver

    Pfalzdriver Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Just wanted to edit my previous post after some further checking. Happened again, this time during Time Trial, which stunned me.
    So I rechecked the pedals and this time they reached only 95% throttle. Looks like there are some temporary glitches. After I replugged them, all was fine again. Damned sensor!
     
  16. F19_CoNa

    F19_CoNa Member

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    In the fwd cars only, I have experanced this fade too several times now. Not sure if it's the tyres going off extremely abrupt or the brakes fading. The worst is that It comes from one corner to the next, so unless you are prepared, you will suddenly overshoot your break point by 50m or more. Regardless, the cliff of the tyres/brakes are too extremely abrupt.
     
  17. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

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    A question still unanswered: do the brakes fade when they get too hot or are still too cold?
     
  18. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Yes.
     
  19. Vojvoda

    Vojvoda Well-Known Member

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    My brakes reach over 650 °C at Mount Panorama with TT Cup (after 3 laps in turn 21), which is the "BrakeResponseCurve"?
    I miss (among other things) brake duct parameter in garage setup.
     
  20. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    So do the teams in the TT Cup. ;)
    And...?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016