Bye Bye my Euro friends!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by GooseCreature, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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  2. The_Grunt

    The_Grunt Well-Known Member

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  3. gio_vtec

    gio_vtec Well-Known Member

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    Just hope nobody start a RR3xit voting poll :D
     
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  4. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    I voted leave largely based on my long-standing opinion that the EU is a bloated, undemocratic vanity project that simply isn't in Britain's interests. Despite being the world's fifth largest ecomony and a major financial contributor to the EU, we (the UK) seem to have very little influence within the union.

    We're different from smaller European nations in that we are a genuine global player with strong ties across the globe, therefore in the long-term I believe the UK will be just fine after we ride out a few years of pain. We will still trade with EU nations as it suits all parties to continue doing so.

    Interesting to see European markets take a bigger hammering than the FTSE yesterday.

    Oh, and Greece should have definitely left the Euro/EU. With their own currency and interest rates they would at least have a fighting chance at recovery rather than the prison sentence they have been handed.
     
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  5. Raaf

    Raaf Active Member

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    The only nation in the world that makes democracy really work are the Swiss.

    There simple majorities directly decide what becomes law and what can be rejected, instead of creating a layer of fuzzy political parties that - we know what is good for you - stage a permanent drama for the popular entertainment and then make decisions that are completely disconnected from the topics that were made up for the elections.

    And hey, the Swiss succeed in governing in a consistent course, with good personal freedom, good social services and protecting their interests. Evidently their citizens have learned that their choices have consequences.

    While in representative democracies people vote for lies and rosy fantasies or populist fears, while the politicians after the elections will just do whatever will strengthen their future political power.
     
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  6. DirtyriceTX

    DirtyriceTX Well-Known Member

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    ^^ and they allow private firearms ownership. And they make great firearms :) Being from the states, switzerland is one of the few countries i'd consider moving to. The czech republic would probably be 2nd.
     
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  7. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    Could this thread be closed now?
     
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  8. Leper Messiah

    Leper Messiah Member

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    I just gotta say I love my Germanic and Franco cousins, I just don't like their politicians ;)
     
  9. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Also the dullest place on the planet with one of the highest suicide rates, oh and everyone has an automatic rifle in the boots (trunks) of their cars for those roadside emergencies, national service, unless daddy's rich enough to buy you out, sounds like a great place! Oh and the foods bloody awful! :p:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
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  10. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Sorry, but this is factually wrong and kinda proves my point. Switzerland has a bicameral parliament and political parties just like most other democratic states, with the difference that the populus may challenge a law that passed the legislative process through referenda.
    Oh yes, and what great decisions the Swiss public has made, banning muslims from building minarets (violating human and constitutional rights), voting against a law that would have banned exporting weapons of war (three times actually), declining a law that would have introduced stricter gun control laws (yes, they have people running amok there too, hooray for guns), voting yes on an initiative against mass imigration (which also affects EU citizens and thereby violates standing treaties), voting yes on an initiative that saught deportation of legal immigrants who broke one of a number of laws, including social welfare abuse.
    And I'm sure you also know that even if a referendum is passed there's still the federal supreme court who can and did overrule many of those decisions afterwards. Schumpeter had some interesting insights as to why this form of direct democracy only works (kinda) in Switzerland (and other smaller states/communities).
    Yet in the Brexit debate there was none of that? Why do you think did Boris Johnson drive this whole campaign? Who do you think will be the next PM?
     
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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  11. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Consequences?
    I don't even disagree that the way things have been handled was not in the best interest of the peoples affected, but we have to acknowledge the world we live in and the systems that are at work. If we want a free, liberal society based on market economics then those are the consequences. Personally I would have preferred no bailout for no bank, let the market do its thing and sort itself out, that's supposedly the whole idea of the invisible hand (which actually wasn't what Smith meant by that term, but who cares).
    But what would the consequences have been? It would have meant relinquishing the ideological foundations of our globalized society and economy. It might have been the right thing to do cause we can see that this system is producing unjust results and creating social tensions, but would it really have been the right thing to do at that moment in time, when we didn't have any workable alternative at hand?
     
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  12. JyriK

    JyriK Well-Known Member

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    Socialism for the rich (bank bailouts) and capitalism for the poor seems to be the overall agenda.
     
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  13. n01sname

    n01sname Well-Known Member

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    Really guys ? I visit political blogs and sites for that, even wrote my own a while ago (not strictly political) and would really appreciate
    not to go into these kinda talk, cause we are here to share our passion and mutual interests and THAT is what helps to make the world a better place....not "opinions"....sharing not getting divided...
     
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  14. Raaf

    Raaf Active Member

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    And introduce new laws by refendum as well.
    Their parliament is small and efficient, and takes care of running legislation.

    All that sounds like pretty good decisions to me.
    They don't let academic principles overtake the world they are living in, like most of Old Europe does.

    But with this I think we go too far outside the topic of the forum, as this is an international forum, and I don't want to sound hostile to any nationality with these issues that touch a very delicate line. But I deny that your point of view is the only natural way to go. That attitude is why we have all this growing unrest and actually the Brexit itself.

    But I will stop posting on this subject now.
     
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  15. Zinker73

    Zinker73 Active Member

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    It actually pisses me off to no end that so many want to return to a europe of nation states. Will people ever learn or are we doomed to repeat the same old mistakes again and again ? No balance of interests between them, no partnerships ? That is going to really work out for everyone :rolleyes: Or do you want a patchwork of small partnerships and treaties like we had right before WW1 ? Not going to work, same way it didn't work back then. Do you really suggest that everyone is going to try to solve the huge problems europe and the world has or will have in the future on thier own ? With everone doing it thier own way and on a small scale with no chance to tackle the problems there are ? Small countries with no partners want to compete with the big ones on thier own ... good luck with that. Have people missed that something like globalisation happened ? That ghost is out of the bottle you can't put it back in. But it seems like that is what conservatives all over europe want, they want to go back to a golden time that actually never really existed or if at all never really worked for anyone involved. They want to roll back all the progress that was made the last 40 to 50 years, at all costs for only one purpose .. that they can be in power, no matter the consequences . And when it is too late people will realize they sold thier future to a bunch of assholes with no plan whatsoever other than to serve thier own hunger for power and influence not giving a flying fuck about anyone else, let alone those that supported them. Don't believe me ? Take a few good books or watch some good documentaries and you will see it all happened in the past,what they all have in common is when it all has failed miserably, they stand there and say it was everyone elses fault ... not having the balls to take a little tiny bit of responsability,as always. Guess who is going to be left in the dirt ?
     
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  16. JyriK

    JyriK Well-Known Member

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    What pisses me off are people who claim that there are no alternatives to the current state of affairs. European nations will continue to co-operate even if some them regain their own economic decision making.
     
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  17. Zinker73

    Zinker73 Active Member

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    Noone said there's no alternative ? What is for sure not an alternative, is what people from the right are suggesting ... the return to nation states as it was before. About regaining (economic) decision making , the people representing you and your nation in the EU are either voted for by you or are being voted in by people of your goverment you voted for , can't hear this "undemocratic" and "dictatorship" nonsense anymore.
     
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  18. hotak

    hotak New Member

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    Not really, EU parliament is mostly consultive, most decisions are made by the "eurogroup" that's not even a real european institution. Also not all the nations in EU have the same decision power, just think about the fact that greece was not able to partecipate some eurogroup meetings during it's bailout negotiations
     
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  19. Zinker73

    Zinker73 Active Member

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    The Eurogroup isn't making decisions, they work out recommendations that then have to pass the Economic and Financial Affairs Council wich is made of the finance ministers of the member states.
     
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  20. DirtyriceTX

    DirtyriceTX Well-Known Member

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    South Korea is the suicide capital of the world. According to 2012 stats, South Korea, Russia, Japan, Finland, Belgium, France, U.S., Austria, Sweden, Ireland, Australia, Canada, New Zealand And Germany have higher rates of suicide. And i'm not even including all of the less developed countries.

    I love when some people from europe act like guns are so evil even though they have never been exposed to them. Here in the u.s. You are more likely to be killed by someone's hand, a hammer, or falling and hitting your head than you are being shot with a rifle. And the swiss have more regulation than we do. Pretty sure their crime rates are very low.

    I get why people don't want to see the EU break up. But the idea that by forming coalitions/unions of countries makes us less prone to conflict, I think isn't entirely true. 2 world wars would say such alliances can be dangerous.
     
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