I seem to recall you making multiple other comments and posts about this, but it was never proven that there was any issue. After the big November update, DRS was broken on these cars, but that was corrected in a hotfix shortly thereafter. Myself and others have tested this extensively since that hotfix, and not found anything wrong. DTM 13/14 give you a DRS delta of ~10-15 kmh on a long straight, and DTM 15/16 gives you a DRS delta of ~5-8 kmh. All classes accelerate slightly faster than those not using DRS. Please post more info such as exact testing scenarios, speed (both with, and without DRS), what track you are testing on, etc. both in a solo session by yourself (as a baseline) and with opponents to demonstrate that something is wrong for you. I already asked a dev how strong the DRS effect should be for the DTM 15/16 cars because ~5kmh seems a bit low, but have not gotten a response yet. So, this seems a non-issue until more info is known.
@nate : I can confirm the DRS problem which is discribed by @Nils Herbstrieth. We are both driver in the same DTM League (virtualracing.org). Every driver in our community has confirmed that the DRS has no effect at all after the "November-Patch". For example our last race was on Slovakia-Ring. And nobody could see a difference on the long straight after T1 when using DRS. I suspect that there is no difference if you have the rear wing on minimum setting. But I could not test this assumption.
Hmm, so the problem you are describing is that when you enable DRS and use it on a straight, you dont notice the car going any faster at the end of the straight... compared to how fast it goes if you do NOT use DRS? Is that correct? I have done pretty exhaustive testing of this with all 4 years of DTM cars that have DRS and as I described above, all 4 years seem to function properly. However, the DTM 15/16 cars seem to have a much smaller DRS effect than the DTM 13/14 cars. I do agree that something feels different since the hotfix after the November update, but I am not noticing that the cars do not go faster at all when you use DRS. Would you mind taking the cars you notice an issue with to Paul Ricard 2A short (the short layout without the chicane) and test your top speeds there before the right hand turn at the end of the Mistral straight. You may need to adjust the gear ratio and make it a bit longer to accommodate the speed. Then, on your first lap, just drive normally without DRS, and make note of the speed you achieve before that right hand turn. Then on the next lap, use DRS and make note of your speed and compare it to the first lap. The effect on the DTM 15/16 cars is small, but still there. And when driving in MP against others, I definitely notice a small boost when I am in the slipstream. I cant imagine there is a bug where DRS entirely does not work for some people, but it could happen I suppose. Cheers
The lower you set the wing, the less effect DRS has. with default wing there's about 10 km/H topspeed difference.
@Andi Goodwin : my setup -> https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/bmw-m4-dtm-2015.6841/ I tested today a lot and after that I am 100% sure that DRS has no effect at all. For example at Spa (first straight after Eau Rouge) I can reach 274 without DRS, and 272 with DRS. Finally, I am even more slowly. My teammate has made the same experiences. Test-Session: virtualracing.org dedi server | Multiplayer Rear-Wing Setting: 5 BMW M4 DTM2015
Yeah, but the thing is that as an experienced DTM driver you mostly use Wing settings between 7-5 (many drive with 5 by default) which feels a bit weird, specially looking at tracks like Spa or Slovakia, which in conclusion means that the DRS is not the issue but the aerodynamics of the DTM Series as a whole, isn't it ? But maybe you just miss a DTM specialist among the beta testers Nothing against a less effective DRS I really appreciate it, btw. - but unfortunately it's non-effective at all for me now(us @ virtualracing)
Well, we've had Spengler testing it, not sure who you'd consider to be more qualified for the job. The thing is when you say DRS is "non-effective at all" then that's not exactly true, is it? I mean it's pretty obvious what's the deal here, it doesn't have the desired effect only if you're running very (dare I say unrealistically) low wing settings. I'm not implying that you're doing sth wrong, that's what the setup allows you to do, but I think it's unrealistic, nobody in the real world drives a DTM car with rear wing lower than ~20 degree. If you're ok with the added instability under braking, great. From my pov the issue is that you're allowed to set the wing lower than lets say 20 degree atm. In theory you should even be faster overall with a slightly higher wing setting than the one you're apparently used to from previous versions, cause you would be able to attack corners much more agressively and still get the benefit of DRS on straights, so right now with very low wing settings you're kinda trading away corner entry/braking stability for nothing. And even the getting slower bit makes sense. If the upper pic is the wing at a very low angle then it kinda already is in a DRS-like state and activating DRS will result in the wing pointing downwards, producing more drag (and in theory lift instead of downforce). So what you're feeling is the system working as it should (from a physics pov). Again, not saying anybody's doing sth wrong or illegal, just that the issue atm (from my pov) is that you can set the wing to unrealistically low settings. Let's see if they're gonna change sth about it or leave you with this freedom. But again, you should theoretically be able to achieve faster laptimes with a higher wing setting, due to better braking stability. Maybe give it a try.
I tested today at Spa: DTM 2015 - GP Single Race - Practice - 55 L Fuel - FinalDrive 4.65:1 DRS activated after Eau Rouge, speed before Les Combes Wing DRS Speed 5 off 272 5 on 270 6 off 270 6 on 270 10 off 265 10 on 270 16 off 255 16 on 270 It seems, that DRS-Level was lowered too much, it equals about the wing setting 6. So when you drive wing setting 5 and activate drs, your going slower than without drs! With DRS the max. speed is always 270 mph. Without DRS and wing 5 it ist 272 mph! With wing settings higher than 6 drs has an effect. I don*t know if this is intended to be like this or if it is realistc ...... Almost every fast driver is driving with minimum wing. There is no chance to pass on long straights when you use more wing. I think it is not realistic, that people drive minimum wing on almost every track. You gain speed on the straights but you don*t loose much speed in the curvy parts. This is a physics issue.
@Nils Herbstrieth: My tests had the same results. If Wing-Setting 5 has the same downforce like using DRS then the car should be almost undriveable in fast corners. And this is certainly not the case.
Thx guys. I appreciate the little lecture @Christian Göpfert on aerodynamics... - that's what it is about, cause in theory it 's all correct and surely intended that way by S3 with the last update (actually the next logical step in regard of advanced aerodynamics) but in reality (on track with RRE) it doesn't work out that way. Btw. we are talking about DTM 15 I have no idea how the 16 Series might behave. And after almost a year (2 Seasons) with DTM 15 at VR, guess there's some expertise to rely on.... I have btw. no problem with the advanced aerodynamics and more subtle effects like reduced slipstream, cause that represents the character of the real DTM series - highly appreciated. That's the theory behind. Unfortunately the basic downforce and grip of the cars (bodywork , splitter , minimum rearwing) is so effective that you have a clear advantage with very low wing settings that you ironically can often compensate by finding a well balanced, (softened) setup with a lot of mechanical grip...so again : it's not about using low wing settings (or to restrict them) it's about the basic physics/aerodynamics of the DTM cars or better about the (missing?) interaction between car physics and aerodynamics , which the update might not have caused but revealed....
Well, when you guys say that DRS doesn't work at all then it seemed to be in place. Seriously, why the roll-eyes? Maybe you can somehow not take this as an attempt to school you but an exchange of ideas. Cause it wasn't my intention to school but with comments like this you're not exactly inviting people to share their pov/add sth to the discussion, just a thought. And just for the record, I was well able to get the '15 BMW up to the same top speed with DRS active as with wing @ 5 (272) down the Spa straight yesterday.
Like I already wrote down: I can reach 274 without DRS, and 272 with DRS! @Christian Göpfert: This should not be an attack, but constructive criticism! In conculsion it can be said that DRS works but it has no effect when you drive with low wing settings. And with these settings, the cars are clearly too easy to handle.
Because it took my time to read it and to see that you (and J-F )somehow didn't get the point (better said you slightly misinterpreted it) - while it was very sweet to have the little drawing and such, thank you .... I don't want to be unfair so for ppl who are not much into DTM it is surely helpful to read about...I'm also a little impatient at times...specially when it's late and I see the neccessity to respond pronto , while I'm too lazy/tired actually
No biggy, just asking really cause I'm never trying to say "You are wrong, I am right, end of the matter" ^^, just giving possible explanations. All in that post was from my theoretical understanding of things and that it does make sense to not feel the same DRS effect with a very low wing. The big unknown for everybody except the physics guys is how they actually simulate all the details, like the Gurney flap f.e., no idea how/if that's taken into the equation here. And if it actually worsens the top speed then it should do so in relation to the wing angle, which it doesn't do apparently (always same top speed when DRS is active, no matter the wing setting). So from my pov there are two possibilities here: The one I mentioned above, the rear wing can be lowered too much (low setting reduces drag too much), or the one mentioned by Frank, DRS not reducing drag enough to at least reach the same max speed as minimum wing (if that's how the physical side of the matter is interpreted). Either way, made a report about it and gonna wait for Karsten to have a look into this. And just another general observation from my side (for whatever it's worth (to you)): DRS as used in DTM isn't to be regarded as a "guaranteed overtake device". Just look at this years Norisring race #2, Nico Müller wasn't able to overtake Blomqvist in 34 laps, despite being inside DRS range and laying down several fastest laps while following Blomqvist.
Yeah, exactly and highly appreciated as desireable result with the last update. The effect is already there but limited by some interference in relation to the rearwing adjustment/aerodynamics of the car Let's see what S3 may find...