Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by J-F Chardon, Jul 10, 2019.
Love the WTCR2018 update. Bravo guys
Hope you guys enjoy some deserved time off now.
Issues are solved, thanks for that
Oh yeah forgot to comment on that but everything fine again on my side as well
Any news about the progress of an ai fix as they still don't race well on Imola. Mistakes in each and every corner resulting in yellow flags and queuing. I just hope it somehow can be reverted back to where it was before the update as the ai then was great to race against.
Aha, didn't notice this. Good to hear that they are working on it.
So instead of arguing in the thread you talking bad behind my back
To my defense:
The Flat6-mod was pretty bad before they changed to the newest rF2-tyre model. The tyre-heat was like driving on soap after a few laps. One update and the car went in my opinion from one of the worst to one of the best cars in sim-racing. You can even drift the car if you like, but this time it will just slow you down and eat the tyres in no time with annoying flat-spot-FFB. I guess that's keeping real drivers from overdriving it and not overly skittish car behavior and tyres going soap.
The Cup-Porsche in iRacing feels rather similar than different and since they changed the cold-tyre behavior back to reasonable i can enjoy it as well again. Just tried the Porsche Cup in Raceroom again and was there a silent update? It's a bit better, but still way too hard and unforgiving from the dampers especially on the Nordschleife or probably any bumpy track. Since there is no damper-setup available (like in rF2 and iRacing as well) i would suggest to soften the car to rF2 and iRacing levels, which are both similar.
And the physics between WTCC and WTCR often feels like the opposite might be more reasonable. WTCC-cars are faster, better in acceleration, better on the brakes (WTCR-brakes are significantly smaller) and less forgiving according to drivers who know both. The lift off oversteer feels great with the WTCC and often uncatchable with the WTCR in Raceroom and I don't see any reason for that in the car concepts. Cars with that long wheelbase over 1400 kg and rather weak brakes should be more forgiving while braking. The Honda Civic in rF2 is a nice example how I think WTCR should rather behave. The dampers are as well much too hard for a heavy car IMO.
And when i wrote to the Ascher Racing F28-SC Wireless Wheel i want one for my Accuforce i meant, i want one with USB rather than wireless connection, which is only compatible with the Simucube 2. Certainly Martin already have a USB-version available now, but not when i did my post: https://www.ascher-racing.com/
PS: out of stock
Hey, me again.
Yes, ours has very stiff springs and dampers, but that's down to how faithful we've been to the SuperCup/PCC Germany regulations. Our spring and damper rates match the real car perfectly which is so stiffly set up because it runs exclusively on silky smooth FIA Grade 1 and 2 circuits. I agree it would be nice to have a more compliant suspension setup, but that's just how it is.
I can't speak for the WTCC cars we have in game. It's comparing apples and oranges as they're several generations of physics development apart. You're incorrect about the brakes though, the braking systems are one of the very few carry-over parts between TC1 and WTCR. For example, the TC1 Volvo used 390/280mm discs with calipers of 4 and 2 pistons, and the TCR Cyan car uses 380/278mm, 6 and 2 pistons. See here and here, stopping power will be very closely matched but of course the TC1 car has less actual mass to slow down. Also, our damper rates match the factory damper specifications.
but isn't that a wrong decision to put the setup to match it to this series when they are only driving on flat tracks while we want to push it on Nords or Mid Ohio or something like that?
What do you think?
The cars in RR are aligned to certain series with certain rules, all explained clearly with any update notes (if @J-F Chardon remembers that is) so comparing other cars from other Sims or series is pointless to say the least.
I try to enjoy the different series available through the multitude of Sims I seem to now own, tend to spend most of my time in RR driving mostly post arrival of @Alex Hodgkinson cars. Finding them a great balance of driveable with an abrupt curve toward tricky when pushed to the limits, sort of how I'd imagine a race car to be.
Looking muchly forward to the arrival of the proposed new features and just plain can't wait for the older cars to be updated, huge undertaking but what a bloody treat, all those cars to reintroduce oneself with, on all those tracks. Chop, chop!
Sim-Racing-cars are never like the real ones and only naive people believe they get THE authentic driving experience. Maybe in a decade or so, but certainly one car should behave the same across different sims if realism is catching up. Or when Norris and Verstappen rather choose an F3-car in iRacing to practise even they could pick an F1, the F3 is likely more close to the real F1 than the sim-F1. Making sim-cars more difficult than the real ones in order to compensate the fact it's far easier to drive virtual cars without g-forces and real consequences, seems more or less common in sims and i don't like it. I always liked Raceroom for 'designing' the physics rather reasonable without exaggerate nonsense and the WTCR and Porsche Cup are examples i still don't agree with whatever Alex is saying.
PS: Yesterday i donated some Euros for the modding of the Cart 1985 mod in rF2, because it's one of the most difficult cars to drive in sim-racing. It's probably BS from the handling, but it's really fun and even challenging to get out of the pits. When i want crazy stuff, i pick it, but i don't want crazy handling when i expect solid racecars.
i think you answered your own remark
for me the thing is , that the devs know how the models work , they have there data sets and driver feedback , between all this they try to create a compromise that the driver feedback becomes as close to what they interperate as real as possible ...
Alex has a great cv and contacts , so wether i gree or not with what is produced is pissing in the wind as i dont have his qualifications or life experience
I think it was last year when they showed hours of Porsche Cup onboard during the 24h Nürburgring because almost all GT3-onboards died due to early DNF. After this marathon of Porsche Cup onboard and some onboards with Ring Police (that are using one car since years) i got my opinion on how it should drive and so far only Flat 6 does the trick for me. If i would have the opportunity to pick a car i could race for real, i would take the Porsche Cup, because it looks not that difficult to drive and is just about 15 seconds slower than a GT3 car around VLN. Also they rather survive than many other car-classes. The Cayman seems far more prone to crash from what i've seen.
And that's what it is, opinion.
You have nothing else, nor personal experience, nor access to someone with experience, nor access to data how the car behaves. Just an opinion based on tv coverage. If that's enough for you, then cool. But don't go around spreading your opinion like an universal truth.
I personally will rather believe people who got the experiencie and the data.
There is access to someone with personal experience and I guess his opinion haven't radically changed with the update (18:16):
I might have watched a different video. Yes, R3E was p3, but wasn't that based on feeling? Which in most cases is down to FFB, which might be down to setup, or just not beign used to r3e ffb. He even said that the car handles like it should, it's just he has no feeling. He even said that the braking is spot on, easy to lock on slow speeds.
And to surprise of no-one, the best feeling is in a sim he's playing the most....
That video Niki Thiim posted 18 months ago when the car was a bit of a caricature as many of it's personality traits were over-exaggerated. We've developed it constantly since then and only now would I say we've reached a peak where I don't feel the need to tweak anything.
I'd really like to see him make another video of the car as it is now.
Well that really sounds like you know it all above the crowd, so it might be difficult to even just start discuss... Nevertheless I totally disagree with what follows:
- As irl we have far more clues on what is going on with the car, they must be easier to drive as our outputs gets more data in to process and decide on. Of course speaking of driving skill alone here, real car being more physically n guts demanding.
- ffb and moving rigs improvements are here exactly to compensate that lack of inputs.
- No way they create good realistic physics and then degrade, because they thought cars are to easy to handle. I see it the other way around, they rather run after putting in more n more refined n relevant parameters, so that handling becomes more natural, and thus easier, to us Car Sapiens.
I had an almost 20 years break in racing virtual stuff, and the progress made in hardware n computations has definitely bring us real close to the real thing, at least to a point where the fun n skill involved is really satisfying me, R3E being where I decided to spend most of my time, I wanna have the full fun with those Porsche cup n FR 90 at some point then gonna look to some historics too
I am not qualified to make a definitive statement about the accuracy of the physics in raceroom, but it sure feels good
Been away for some months, very nice surprise working with porsche gt3 cars and yesterday the older Carrera cup group 4. They were always a handful, it appears they have more feeling now. Great job crew!
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