Released 30th January 2019 - Update

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by J-F Chardon, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Viggdred

    Viggdred Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the problem is still persistent, like in turn 2 and 6 on Mid Ohio (full)...Going from 3rd gear to 2nd, the Cayman is very "loose"...even on turn 12...:eek:
    In fact, the car's much more difficult to handle, since the update...:(
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  2. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    The next patch including the fix hasn't been released yet.
     
  3. Case

    Case Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the newest track still needs some cut rules adjustments. Yes, I'm dead serious - you wouldn't be able to get away with this on most other tracks.

    No, it's usually not. I don't get why people still say this. Couple of examples (chosen simply because they are fairly easy to find):

    Blancpain sporting code:
    "The white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track."

    DTM sporting code:
    "The track is defined by white demarcation lines on both sides of the track. For the interpretation of this Article, the kerbs are not considered to be part of the track. The drivers are allowed to use the whole width of the track between these white lines. The car is considered to be off the track as soon as all of the four wheels of the car are outside these white lines."

    F1 sporting code:
    "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not."

    FIA International Sporting Code (which many series refer to):
    "For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track."

    We could go on, but there really is no point.
     
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  4. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    Motorsport UK regulations

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Case

    Case Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are exceptions. I never said there are not. There are exceptions to almost anything.

    But OK, point taken, you want me to shut up about track limits, so I'll shut up about track limits. I still maintain what is stated on that loading screen is wrong given how the cut rules in the majority of the tracks in the game behave (meaning - it absolutely follows the sporting codes I quoted above) and going behind white lines should absolutely not be encouraged within the simracing community by such statements for the sake of cleaner and more fair racing, which should be something we should all be striving towards, but what can I really say that can hold up against the opinion of a developer? Nothing.
     
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  6. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    When the AI follows these rules; so will I !

    When racing AI I gave up setting the game to strict rules.
    Too many times I was penalised after the AI bumped me off track and yet the AI was never penalised!
    Heck on some tracks the AI will quite often break the rules but still the don't get penalised
     
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  7. Patrick Schilhan

    Patrick Schilhan Well-Known Member

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    Nice information and pictures. It would be nice if we have also a official Sector 3 thread about this topic with R3E example screenshots like we can see above.
     
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  8. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Because that's the general rule being applied in RR since a long time: At least two tyres have to be on track, curbs (can) count as part of the track surface.
    There's many examples of tracks where you can legally go beyond the white line with more than two wheels, thinking of Hockenheim, Spa, Suzuka and many more.

    The icky bit in the upper statment is "(can)", because it's not a 100 % consistent rule. There are parts where it's ok to leave the area defined by the lines, other times it isn't.
    There's two reasons for that:
    1. The rl rules you quoted aren't executed 100 % consistent either. In almost any race you watch you can see drivers violating these basic rules without being penalised, based on a steward ruling. Typically this happens in battles for position etc. Because we can't have steward rulings and in order to grant some space for such events it was decided to allow using some kerbs as track surface, otherwise we would end up with people getting penalized left, right and centre without their own wrongdoing.
    2. On the other hand you don't want to make 1. a rule that applies everywhere, because that would just be an invitation for abuse. Situations that fall in the 1. category typically occur at corner exits, or the outside of a turn in general. By making the kerb-allowed rule universal you'd also allow extending over the white at the inside of all corners, which isn't necessary for battling situations, wouldn't go un-penalized irl and hence it is generally not allowed in RR either (with exceptions, see Nico's pictures).

    In addition, you can find loads of spots in RR where you can legally go way beyond the tarmac because you can't gain time by doing so and it was hence deemed unnecessary to apply cut track ruling in those spots as it would only cause questionable penalties if the cut rule was enforced and you'd left the track there because of some incident or alike.

    So trying to come up with a somewhat unsatisfying summary of the cut rules in RR you'd probably end up with sth like:
    As said, I find it unsatisfying myself, I would much prefer a general rule being excuted universally, even at the chance of me receiving the occasional unjust penalty, but I've made my peace with it because it does make sense to allow some leeway in some spots, kinda. ;)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  9. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member

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    In most rl racing series you have a general rule concerning track limits.
    But in every drivers briefing before every race, the race director talks about those rules and how they gonna interpret those rules in specific corners. They can allow going over the limit in certain corners and absolutely not allow it in other corners.
     
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  10. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Was going to say I thought in RR it was a case of as long as two bits of rubber were touching the line, "you're alright", if not I demand every competition is re-examined for infringements of the rules and the offenders flogged publicly with an old inner tube!
    I always took it for granted, if you want to be fast, firstly find the track limits then apply your line accordingly and because I'm a lazy sod I could never be arsed to hunt the limits, just used to follow others to get an idea. Saying all that I swear as the physics develop all four wheels on the black stuff tends to be quickest, with the odd exception of course.
    Would make life far easier if track designers incorporated solid walls at the track limits, problem solved or am I sounding like a Trumper? :eek:
    Will be a never ending debate though. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  11. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Member

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    Looks like ill have some time to drive today so just let me know which track youd like to see :)
    Dont think there was much of a reason to list all those sporting regs since were talking about r3e and not about real life ;)
     
  12. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Member

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    Now i dont watch any uk motorsports but is there any series where picture b would actually invalidate your lap in quali??
     
  13. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

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    Will you also rework the upshifting? Something still feels wrong here. On IRL videos I don't see the rear spinning when upshifting 2->3 while accelerating in a turn.
     
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  14. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    Yes, all UK club motorsport. The ongoing joke is that circuit owner Jonathan Palmer (MSV) is so strict because he wants to keep all of his grass perfect. Another funny observation is that BTCC (which is subject to the same rule book) are very rarely penalised for any of that sort of thing.
     
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  15. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    This is one thing that really bugs me, the game dosnt differentiate, I can run side by side with someone for half a lap and get leaned on by my opponent forced out wide and get a penalty, i can do 4, 5 or 6 consistant laps on the 7th just run a fraction wide and get a penalty even tho running wide has already slowed me down and cost me time, someone can spin in front of me forcing me to run wide to avoid them, i get a penalty, someone decides they dont want to use their brakes at the start of the race, take Spa first turn, get shunted out wide, get a penalty, go around the outside of a slower driver, they decide to move over push you off track, get a penalty.
    Lots of penalties there :) But its like there is no rhyme or reason to the way penalties are dished out, or there is but it is a simple black and white, you went off track you will be penalised regardless of the reason. Really frustrating, add some of the crazy time penalties that come with it.................grrrrrrrr
     
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  16. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Member

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    @Case so i went ahead and tried hockenheim, spa and portimao which are all used fairly often and have been in the game for several years. Once again a few might be considered as still just about on the white line and not all of them are actually gonna gain you time but none of these got my laps invalidated. If youre
    still convinced these are all weird exceptions i happened to find then so be it but to me this all rather looks like the rule and not the exception ;)
     

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  17. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Member

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    No more than 25 pics per post so ill finish it here :D
    @everybody sorry for spamming but i had to :D
     

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  18. Jorgen Wahlby

    Jorgen Wahlby Well-Known Member

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    I have had a "hard" time to adjust to R3E from iRacing with the penalty differences in cutting tracks, but it is needed if I want to be on the "upper part" of the leader board. As long as the game don't penalize me I will do it. (it would probably generate a drive through or S&G in real but I am in a game so I will cheat any way it allows me to do... true story :D)
     
  19. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    So cheats do prosper then?
    :p
     
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  20. Jorgen Wahlby

    Jorgen Wahlby Well-Known Member

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    Not always but there is a "gray zone" we all can use (or misuse as some would say) without being penalized :rolleyes:
     
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