AI Aggression

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by .OG Isaac, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. .OG Isaac

    .OG Isaac Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I've been racing against AI today and i've noticed that they have less respect for the player. When i'm alongside them in corners (inside and out) they either bump me or push me off the track, sticking to their line but not respecting mine.

    Has anyone else had this? I'll try to capture some footage and upload it here when it's done uploading.

    I'm interested to see what your guys's experiences with the current AI are. I'm running Adaptive AI at the moment, racing GT3 cars on tracks like Sachsenring, Zandvoort, Suzuka and Spa.

    Edit: After a few races on Adaptive AI on my favourite tracks i've been having cleaner and cleaner racing. Having proper races now!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  2. ohioracer

    ohioracer New Member

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    Never had any problems.....before the fix. Since, well, it's hard to tell about the ai since i can't get on line for more than 2 minutes at a time after a 10 minute connection wait to be booted again by a 503. Again, only been a week tho. I don't want to sound ungrateful to all the hardworking people at s3s but lets say now, since the gearbox fix was implemented i now can't drive w/ manual/gear/clutch even one lap. Before patch, ai on adapt, great racing, now, i have been punted two times trying to race on the first lap in turn one. I don't feel i am qualified to comment much more now because i want to be fair so i will check in after a few weeks of rf2, you know how that works, "it's been so long, I'll just boot it up for a few minutes to compare." 5 weeks later you remember "oh, yeh, r3e was having problems, i wonder if they got it sorted out? oh well, I'll stop by there one day again and check it out, meanwhile, steam servers down again? no problem, rf2 can be accessed as a single player so, I got a tight race starting in a few minutes, q'd 8th don't ya know so I gotta go.
     
  3. Balrog

    Balrog Well-Known Member

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    The AI is definitely more agressive than before. But I think they should be in a touring car-heavy simulation.:p I really enjoyed racing against them. They defend their position and attack back on corner exit if they have the opportunity. Sometimes they bump into you a little bit, but that's fine.

    I always see people complaining about the agressive AI, but the greatest thing about racing against them is that unlike human opponents, they are predictable if you are patient enough to learn how they behave in certain situations. From that point you'll always know how far you can go against them. And I think RaceRoom is the best in this area. So if they constantly push you off the track, there's a chance it's not entirely their fault.

    But of course, in an ideal world there would be a slider option for AI agression, but that's a different story.:rolleyes:
     
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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016
  4. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Yet you have to treat them like a human opponent in some regards. Just like a human driver, there's really not much they can do if you keep cutting into their nose expecting them to just disappear and stuff like that.
     
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  5. Tom Shane

    Tom Shane Active Member

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    After few races with the new patch, I have some feedback about new AI (tested with GTR3 and TT 2015, 105-110 difficulty, 24/32 cars on the grid):
    1. it is now kinda possible to have a race against the AI, I don't have to restart the race 10 times in a row anymore, but...
    2. in some situations they are still very aggressive
    3. very often they don't mind bumping player from behind
    4. on some tracks (Zolder) they are not able to go through chicanes cleanly, going over curbs and ending in the sand or having to catch nasty slide on every lap
    5. they hit each other almost every time when there is more cars closer together
    6. their movement is very artificial, wavy and not smooth (not talking about defending the line)
    7. even if I have much better corner entry, they always accelerate much quicker from a corner - I can't keep with them even with P2P active (TT)
    8. they are having hard time passing obstacles on the track - if I crash and stay on the side of the track, they blink their lights from afar, but still hit me, instead of slowing down and going around
    All situations I tried to watch from the replay, to make sure I wasn't the cause of the problem, because of my limited awareness from the cockpit. My lap times match the difficulty used, it's not the problem of "you are too slow for them not to hit you". After start I'm trying to be as careful as possible, but the percentage of surviving without being milled in the middle of the field is barely 50% (made up number, but it feels like it :p).
     
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  6. The_Grunt

    The_Grunt Well-Known Member

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    These are my main initial impressions, too. AI is definitely a lot better than it was after the "big grid" patch, but it still has unwanted "features" that put the earlier AI iterations above other sims back in the 2015 or so.

    My main gripe is AI's inability to hold the line, which is perhaps part of all of the above. In earlier days, if you could get a clean overtake on a turn, it was simply awesome to drive against the AI side by side and you didn't even scratch the paint, if you just did your part well. Now AI doesn't respect your line and in many cases just rams you on your side. It may be because it tries to block you in middle of the turn (too aggressive) or is simply just unaware of you. Then again AI is, as said, also making contact with each other quite a lot.

    About the 4th point above, this was also a "feature" introduced during the "big grid" or so. AI drives very restlessly almost like they are on the brink of losing the car control constantly (over turning and over correcting the car etc.). And I don't talk about them trying to find another line to pass when braking or on straights. This happens when they are mostly driving in the turns. Earlier AI was a lot smoother, looked more realistic and generally behaved much better.

    Ramming behind is something that has always bothered R3E more or less. It was pretty good at some point, but got worse again during the "big grids" or thereabout. It is IMO on the same level now, but is on the borderline tolerable.

    All in all, AI took steps to the right direction and compared to earlier days, race definitely isn't a parade from the start like it used to be. There was still lot's of good things in the old days that I'd like to see re-introduced with the current AI. AI was IMO pretty much unplayable during the last 6 months or so and is now at least playable and at this point I could argue it is even generally enjoyable. I just wish that Sector3 will put more effort on the AI code in the future to iron all these irritating inconsistencies out. "Old" AI minus the parades and there you have it :)
     
  7. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    my couple of cents worth
    to get best results from Ai
    run max 30 Ai
    give them room
    contacts in mp and real life cause accidents it the same with the Ai so if you late brake and cut across noses you will get hit
    tghey will nudge you ; so does virtually every real race driver thats not in an openwheel car ; and then some of them aswell

    this is quite a big Ai tweak , i deleted my AI file , and started again (after making a copy and saving it)

    if you dont run adaptive some cars are going to be slightly different Ai%wise
    have a few races find your level

    dont set the level so you win the race , set it so you race hard , you will get contacts , you will get spun .... this isnt an issue , look at any new comer in a series , you learn the rules of the pack , you learn there behaviours there attitude

    I know that sounds like an excuse but it isnt i know where i cant place myself , but i also know where i can , its a game its playing numbers so you will learn it

    its far from perfect , there are some things that need finalising ; but its very very much better than before

    Andi
     
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  8. .OG Isaac

    .OG Isaac Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I've adapted my driving to give more space than I used to, i've been having some nice races now. :p
     
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  9. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

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    That's my main problem with the AI in TT Cup. They're so incredible fast at corner exits
     
  10. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

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    I like the new AI as its much closer to the original AI (or should that be 'classic' AI) that existed prior to the 'big fields' changes.

    I have been punted off twice but I think both times it was my fault:
    (1) I turned in on a car that had it's nose alongside (only just though!)
    (2) I braked a little early - AI tried to avoid me but clipped me and sent me off

    You do have to give them room though and remember there might be two of them coming through on a pass!

    It's still among the best AI in any racing game for me though... at least it's not nervously braking at shadows any more.

    Only odd thing (so far) is the strange jiggly driving style of one (not all) of the DTM cars in front of me. It looked like he was driving on ice (the drug AND the road surface condition).
     
  11. Martin89

    Martin89 New Member

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    I've deleted my old adaptive Ai yesterday after the game started to run again after the huge problems last week.
    What is the time the Ai is used to my level again, because after doing 11 laps in DTM Zolder qualifying, they where still 5 seconds of my times..
    Does anyone have an idea when they come to my level? :)
     
  12. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    The adaptive AI will only log your performance in race sessions, they won't adapt during practice or qualifying.
    However, there should be a shortcut because the one and only @pixeljetstream created a tool that lets you create an adaptation file with pre-select AI strength, so you don't need to train them manually.
    Check it out here: https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...atabase-prototype-call-for-participation.5632

    EDIT: Link corrected.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  13. Martin89

    Martin89 New Member

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    Thanks for your quick and good answer :D
    I sertainly will give the tool a try!

    My other question about the adaptive Ai, when your results are getting better and better, does the Ai 'recognize' this and will be faster and harder too?

    Thanks in advance! ;)
     
  14. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    That is the idea behind adaptive AI. Yes, they will become faster if your performance in race sessions increases. (And they will also become slower if you spend more time in the grass than on track. ;) ) This system will also work with the file primed with @pixeljetstream 's tool.
     
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  15. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    can we have adaptive mp , as there not learning

    Andi
     
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  16. GregoryLeo

    GregoryLeo Well-Known Member

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    Didn't really want to jump in here, but yah the ai are way more agressive which I don't mind persay. But in the dtm and m1 pro car, they don't seem to have any awareness of me at all on the track. Which used to be among my favorites. Whille the audi tt and adac are much better and very fun to race against.
     
  17. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    They may feel more aggressive because they got back their intelligence. Things like when to make a move, trying to overtake, passing other AI, their lines through corners... all are more dynamic now since the AI can plan them all better. So, like the guys above said. You really gotta treat them like a real person. If they calculate that they have enough room to make a pass, cutting off their nose is going to lead to trouble.

    Overall, I havent found them to be more aggressive than they were before. Previously, I found them really aggressive in most classes and really lacking awareness of the players car and would run into them constantly. Not so much for me anymore.

    Of course, every class still has some bugs that may be present. Such as a wayward AI that still likes to push and shove. But as a whole I feel they are massively improved.

    Which DTM class were you having issues with? The '15 and '16 DTM cars have given me some one the best AI racing I have ever had in a sim. Without exaggeration. Personal favorite right now is running the DTM 16 cars at the shorter Paul Ricard layouts. Both have their unique challenges and really test the cars well. On Solution 2A (short layout without chicane) that fast right hander at the end of Mistral Straight going full speed, side by side with an AI, right before slamming on the brakes to make that shortcut turn is intense. :)
     
  18. Fleskebacon

    Fleskebacon Well-Known Member

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    I've done some races with my favourite class DTM92, and the AI is definately more aggressive. Don't think they're too aggressive though, they're back to how I remember them before the big-grid-patch. Just like I feel they should be, to make the racing a bit interesting.

    Occasionally, I find myself swearing and calling upon dark forces for being punted off track in the last lap, but most of the time it's because of me being stupid and not keeping my own line and diving into another car's line, or I'm braking unreasonably early with an enemy following me close behind.

    But I like them so much better now. They will actually overtake and attack without being invited to do so. Before the recent patch I felt like I almost had to brake and pull over with my indicator on to have them overtake me. That's no fun.

    And just like in real racing, your opponents will make mistakes.
     
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  19. Christoph

    Christoph Well-Known Member

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    With the dtm 2016 race are the AI a dream good fighting. At the adac gt masters 2014 more aggressive as before but better.
    It is true when you look at them like human drivers takes it is ok.
     
  20. Rodent

    Rodent Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I gave up on the adaptive AI long ago due to not having time to train it, and frustration with the AI in general that made me play the game less until post patch.

    Really liking racing against them now though granted I've only really tried GT3's at Bathurst and DTM 2016's at Hungaroring but the AI did well. We traded paint at times but honestly despite what iRacing teaches us about car contact I like it that way, real racing in both series always have a bit of contact. It's not perfect, there can still be quite a bit of a pileup in turn one for example but I just treat it like a general online race, wait -> hold back -> gain positions. :p

    Then again I guess it helps that the first thing my old man taught me about driving was "Son, drive like everyone around you is an idiot, always be prepared for their mistake, because if you're not it'll cost you MY car." :D
     
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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016