Seems like I'm always quoting James but only because we know it other from a different forum. Interesting. I know AMS has the Stock Car drivers test and approve their physics and with one driver being Rubens Barrichello, perhaps he's given his thoughts on a few of the F1 cars - the rest are based off whatever data Niels has at his disposal. R3E has DTM drivers direct feedback for the DTM Experiences, KW Suspension and ADAC drivers direct feedback for the ADAC Experiences and GT3 class cars, Audi TT drivers direct feedback for the Audi TT and manufacturer data for the other real world vehicles. I don't see how these vehicles are anything other than authentic given they were built around the feedback of the drivers who race them for a living. As beta testers, we read how much time and effort is put into R3E by Karsten and other Sector 3 staff on all the vehicles, including the silhouette cars which are largely based off various real car data. Part of me wonders if R3E started its life as it stands today rather than the sim-lite it once was, would attitudes towards it be different? This will hopefully change soon as there are plently of changes behind the scenes with R3E's FFB and I think it's part of the perception issue R3E has. That said, AMS and Stock Car Extreme before it has sublime out of the box FFB. Nothing wrong stating AMS or rF2 are, in your opinion, more pure sims as it's the subjective part of sim racing! We all make and pass judgements on cars we'll never sit in let alone drive based on our own subjective ideas and notions. I love all of the sims you've mentioned for different reasons and would include Assetto Corsa into the list too.