Best AI of them all!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vvPULSEvv, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. vvPULSEvv

    vvPULSEvv New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2020
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    I have been sim racing since 98, and for some odd reason, I never tried R3E until several months ago. After 170 quick hours of racing single player championships with AAI, I must say this is the best offline racing I have ever witnessed. From fighting to hold onto a position, to performing a pass anywhere if I'm not fast enough, all while keeping it clean, just blows my mind. I've never seen anything like it, and I can't get enough of it.

    I absolutely love the AAI as well, as fooling with obtaining the proper difficulty has always been a pain-point for me when going from track-to-track in other sims, and this takes care of it! I've been reading the forums, but this is my first post. My advice for the folks looking to train the AI is to just set the difficulty to Adaptive and race! You will win some, you'll lose some, and before long every race will be extremely competitive, and when you win, it will feel deserving.

    For those that enjoy offline racing, there is nothing that compares to R3E, and yes that includes RF2, AMS2, and the other sims that many folks claim to have the best AI.

    Sector3, please don't break what is fixed. I don't know how you have accomplished what no one else has, but I'd love to have some insight as to how it came to be... it would be book-worthy, in my opinion. Keep up the good work... I'll be supporting you with any and all content you release in the future.
     
    • Agree x 11
    • Like x 4
    • Winner x 3
    • Love it! x 2
    • Wonderful x 1
  2. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Ratings:
    +159 / 0 / -0
    I have to agree 100%
    They've been updating the AI constantly and over the last 1 or 2 updates they are getting close to perfection!

    After racing R3E ai, no other game will satisfy you
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. amsterDAN

    amsterDAN New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    I agree 100% about the AI, RaceRoom quite simply kicks the crap out of the other games when it comes to that single player racing experience. I've made it a point to only use the Adaptive AI, and nowadays I finish races right around the middle of the pack so often that it really feels like the AI is perfectly centered around my own abilities, and when I get a good result or even a podium it feels like a triumph. To me, it's the main selling point for RaceRoom.
     
  4. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Ratings:
    +159 / 0 / -0
    Once the adaptive AI is tuned in it pretty darn good and pretty hard to get a first place; which is fine by me as it drives me to always tweek my car setups to try and find that extra 10th or two
     
  5. Olaf Hülse

    Olaf Hülse Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +490 / 0 / -0
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  6. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Ratings:
    +64 / 0 / -0
    Yes it is close to perfect. Only a little racing intelligence is missing. AI don´t drive a defensive line and make it easy for overtake attempts. Also their pit stop strategy sometimes is questionable (last lap pitting etc.).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Ratings:
    +159 / 0 / -0
    The pit strategy is my biggest gripe

    I find the AI do drive defensively and will block the inside line in; especially in hard braking slow corners.
    I've been hammering the DTM 2016 cars the last few nights and dang I've had some of the best racing battles with this class.

    The thing I love most about Sector3 is that they do listen to the community about AI problems.
    Spend a little time on the forum reporting an issue and they fix it; it may take a little time but they get it done in the end. That's why I love this game still been marketed as a beta version as it means they are still actively and continually improving it.

    I've been playing this game for a few years now and the AI, FFB and Physics improvements over the last 12-18 months have made it a whole new game again. Just when I think I've played it to death they release some new update that gives the game a new lease of life for me and thank god for that because no other racing game does it for me.

    I've always thought their in-car sounds were amazing and immersive so I can't wait to hear how they have improved that !
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wonderful Wonderful x 1
  8. Flintenwilly

    Flintenwilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Ratings:
    +104 / 0 / -0
    Yes, i 100% agree. R3E has the best and most balanced AI.
    I tried most of the other Sims out there, and in every other sims has the same issues. Some more some less.

    PC2 f. e. was the worst. The strength of the ai differs much from track to track, even in the same class. So that when i want to race always have to jump in and out of the training do set it up - every time. And not even to mention the behaivior on track.

    In AC the AI was just there and not competing in the race, just cars driving around, not racey at all. Thats why AC is the best trackday-sim for me.

    ACC is quite good, but i am more into historic cars.

    AMS2 i have hopes, but to this time it has the PC2 feeling with fiddeling with the AI.

    In R3E i jump in a race an go. When i set the AI to 100 i can race on every track with it. When driving on track i am not familiar with, they are quicker, but i can catch up quickly when i know the track better.
    Like now on aragon. AI was on 100 and i first jumped on the track with Group 4. After learning the breakingpoints and not missing the chicanes anymore, i managed to drive the times of the slowest AI cars. Just improving further.
    And the behavior in the race is intense, they always bit back, not giving up. This is motorsport, i whant to fight even for the last place.

    All in all that is, in addition with the classleading sound, the realistic colours of the graphics, the good selection of cars/liveries matching the classes and the lifely tracks, why R3E is the most immersive sim for me and why i play it, even when i can only drive on sunny days. Weather would even make it better.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Badgerous

    Badgerous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Ratings:
    +155 / 0 / -0
    I dip in and out with AM2 to test the updates, but the AI is one of several reasons I just kinda bounce off it and fire up RRE again.

    RRE is the only sim that gives the impression that the AI plans ahead.. For example, if they're faster than you on a straight(ish) section, they seem to move aside with room to spare, make their move, and carry on without loss of speed. 9 times out of 10 it gives a move that's totally convincing, and what you'd expect a person to do. In nearly any other sim (AMS2 in particular) they scream up behind you, bleed off speed, and then wobble about wondering what to do next which totally kills the immersion.

    Seeing the AI race each other is also a lovely thing here. - Being stuck behind two cars battling it out can be quite the thing.

    The iRacing AI is also showing promise to be fair, but I've not not spent too much time in that one.. iRacing seems to be a bit of an all-or-nothing commitment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. sergeich

    sergeich Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0
    Somebody see rFactor2's AI? It is not Artificial Intelligence - it is Artificial IDIOTS :)
    Yes, RR's AI is very good.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Bull Shark

    Bull Shark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Ratings:
    +132 / 0 / -0
    Yeah I love to race against the AI in R3E. R3E has the Best AI if you ask me. :Dand if you don’t ask me I still find it the best AI. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Olaf Hülse

    Olaf Hülse Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Ratings:
    +490 / 0 / -0
    There might not be track differences, but there sure are some corner differences. AI is pretty fast through middle speed or close to flat out corners imo. Therefore there are considerably strong at Oschersleben, Road America (Caroussel), Sonoma and others. But the latest AI tools in the updates definetely had some positive impact on that.
    Greetings
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. T3AMGEIST

    T3AMGEIST Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    It's close between Raceroom and ACC in my opinion, sometimes the Raceroom AI ist too aggressive.
     
  14. Flintenwilly

    Flintenwilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Ratings:
    +104 / 0 / -0
    Yes, in WTCR it would be on spot realistic, in GT-Series semi and in open wheelers not so much. As i mostly drive "normal" racecars i like that aggressivnes, always watching and the need to close doors every time, when you dont, the AI is there to claim your position. And when you are not aware of that, thats where the chrashes happen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Loki-D

    Loki-D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    I consider myself quite anal about AI in sims, having tried pretty much them all apart from iracing.

    I do now consider RRe the best ai of em all, after literally years of going back n forth. Rf2 used to be the best but their inability to draft or lack of any updates, seems to be left to die. ACC ai has issues if you go near their rear qtr they seem to move out the way for you - they seem as they just follow rails - i would actually say AC ai is better. AMS2 ai is getting there but no where as near polished all round than rre, but has potential as they do have a block move just coded in to be worked on.

    I define ai amongst sims by two main features, and if the AI can successfully do it. Thats attack a player and defend a corner from a player. RRe ai seems to do these more consistently and causes great racing. Only downside of rr ai is sometimes they seem to give up when you get past them. They seem to slow down and give up - even if to catch them initially was a effort. (so its not too low difficulty)

    But as i said in another thread the Ai in rr with open wheelers doesnt work as well as the tintops for some reason. I only play tintops in RR for that reason.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. anno900

    anno900 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0
    I currently do a championship with FRJ. And AI Fights me and amongst each other. Also No issues at imola. Just one small wreck in 1st chicane on lap 3 or 4. I Love the AI and as a single player since decades, I have not Seen anything coming Close, neither grand prix 4 nor NASCAR 2003. I cannot thank s3 enough taking Care of the single player racers.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Ratings:
    +1,689 / 0 / -0
    What a nice friendly thread to come across this is!

    Just scanning through I can't see any looming issues being mentioned, so we must be doing something right.

    Don't be afraid to mention any AI issues you come across, no matter how small. Even letting us know where the AI repeatedly gain or loose a couple of car lengths is something we can work on polishing up.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Loki-D

    Loki-D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    Hi Alex, only thing is would mention as a few posts up, is that the ai seem to give up when overtaken. Not that i want a rubber band, but maybe give them a race bonus$$$ if they can retake their position lol
    Also again as i said the open wheelers seem to bumper cars-ish. In tin tops you can get away with kissing eachother often but in f1 cars its seems to clumsy so to speak.

    Anyway keep up the good work and thanks for not forgetting about us AI lovers!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +179 / 0 / -0
    I agree with what everyone says about how good racing the AI is. Some people moan about the graphics (which I think are fine) - but my response is yeah yeah but what about the racing... you are so busy racing you don't care about anything else.

    Something I would love to have as an option is choosing the Adaptive AI level. Sounds like a contradiction but what I mean is at the moment if you run against Adaptive AI you will tend to finish mid-pack and that can of course be very satisfying and can push you to improve both yourself and the car BUT you may want a reasonable chance of winning (or you might even want to run further back).

    So it'd be cool if you could have 3-4 options so that you could choose:
    * Run near the front (so that if I drive consistently at my best I win)
    * Run top half of the grid (so that if I improve on my best I win)
    * Run in the middle - very roughly this is what it seems to do now (winning is rare)
    etc

    As with everything I realise it's easier said than done... especially with variability between cars, tracks, us etc.
     
  20. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Ratings:
    +2,340 / 0 / -0
    The biggest problem with this would be the adaptation mechanism at play itself. Adaptive AI doesn't use some artificial rubber banding or stuff like that, it's purely about altering the lap times the AI is capable of, so in order to achieve these options you'd inevitably have to make the AI run just a tad slower than they should. But that would mean that after you've won a race the adaptation algorithm would have to kick in and boost the AI up a notch. You'd end up in a loop of constantly improving your level artificially without actually improving your lap times.

    In theory you could stop the game from adapting as long as you're below a certain margin ahead of the average AI times, but that's where it'd get super tricky to dial in right so it's still a challenge and you avoid that loop but also don't interfer with the algorithm when it should kick in.

    However, I'll make a note about this, maybe it's sth to look into once the overall experience is at a level that could be considered somewhat finished.