Released BMW M6 GT3

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by RaceRoom, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. PE4

    PE4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Ratings:
    +64 / 0
    I've drove the M6 in two races: Imola and Nordschleife with the default setup. The car behaves OK, I didn't had any problems. The reason I don't like it is its size (it's harder to find gaps).

     
  2. Paul Darke

    Paul Darke Moderator Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +193 / 0
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Cesar Maranhao

    Cesar Maranhao Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Ratings:
    +283 / 0
    Although this setup is based on another generation of BoP and you need to somewhat ignore the part about the rearwing settings as of now, I watched it and tried his suggestions. And together with a good amount of rearwing the car is stable again for me now.

    What surprised me the most were the low camber settings he used. This might be something new in RaceRoom physics. "Back in the days" it was quite common to drive with high camber settings - having too much camber was pretty much impossible, except for front/rear-balance.

    I slightly lost in topspeed, but it's really a minor decrease. ~2km/h at the end of Kemmel for example. The ability to slam the throttle earlier, combined with the increased stability over curbs and through corners in general totally makes up for this decrease.

    The Porsche and the AMG are still faster for me in average but at least it is fun again to drive the M6. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Ratings:
    +1,165 / 0
    I thought that people here would like to know that an improvement on the baseline M6 handling has been submitted internally. So, with some more testing it'll be on it's way into a patch soon!
     
    • Like x 8
    • Informative x 4
    • Love it! x 2
    • Winner x 1
    • Wonderful x 1
  6. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Ratings:
    +301 / 0
    Good to hear, is that the baseline handling as in a different default setup or some actual changes on the car?

    Also for the people that think the M6 stops like a bus, you need to use a very high brake bias, i use about 58/59. I'm definitely struggling to get the M6 up to pace too though, a good 0.5-1.0 seconds behind the bentley and Z4 on silverstone, even though the high speed nature suits the downforce on the M6.
     
  7. Pit54

    Pit54 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2017
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0
    To the developers of the BMW M6 GT3
    Is it possible that you take this one, because it is inferior to the other GT3.
    1. make brakes better
    2. the transmission adjusts gears 3-4 are too short and in 6 gear it does not go into the governor.
    3. adjust the rear wing to the other GT3 not 4 degrees but also to 0 degrees
    4. tires the physics of the front tires must be changed, because they are cold every 2 laps and have no grip also the behind tires so more grip have.
    Hope you understand the problems.
    Greetings from a big BMW fan drive the since appearing in the VRGT3 league.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. bearr

    bearr Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0
    I also think that performance is not enough. Compared to Z4, it loses >0.5 seconds. In HOCKENHEIM, Nurb GP, Spa.
     
  9. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Ratings:
    +283 / 0
    When it comes to GT3, I drive the M6 almost exclusively. But I also test the other GT3s from time to time. So, regarding the M6, I have quite a story to tell... ;)

    The M6 already got a lot of attention. For example it was the only GT3 that was not only BOPed, but actually recieved a complete overhaul AFTER the big change of physics. Still it didn't get any faster. The other cars were slowed down quite a bit, so the gap was significantly reduced.

    When the M6 was released (still on the old physics), it was competetive and felt OK. But at that time all the GT3 were feeling and performing quite similar. After the new physics it had good downforce and stability and was competetively quick through the corners. But it was so slow on the straights, that it was at least 1 sec slower a lap than the faster GT3s. The first BOP-pass took away the downforce AND the drag - so it became quick on the straights but nearly undriveable without excessive rear wings - which in turn made it slow on the straights again. Not as slow as before, but still. Laptimes didn't change. Then the overhaul happend and after that it ended up somewhere in the middle. Apart from really special corners like Eau Rouge you could use lower wings, but laptimes still didn't change a bit.

    I think the main problem of the M6 is its weight. It is (together with the Bentley) afaik the heaviest GT3. And it is also quite quick on the straights. This means the car must have a lot of power. So it is notoriously instable at the rear through bumpy fast corners. Driving this thing through Eau Rouge with low wings is always a gamble. The weight is also responsible for the bad braking performance.

    One thing you can do to stabilize it at higher speeds is to even out the front and rear ride height. I noticed that the bigger the difference between front and rear is, the more the downforce balance shifts to the front with higher speeds. Additionally you can stiffen the front anti roll bar. Downside here is that the car tends to understeer a lot through medium and slow corners and has overall low downforce through fast corners.

    So with low wings for high topspeed you suffer a lot in corners. The actions you have to take to make it stble are so profound that it is more than just the loss of rear downforce.

    With more rear wing you can lift up the ass for more front downforce through medium and fast corners and you can also soften the front anti roll bar for more front grip all around. But you surely suffer in top speed then.

    But after my experience so far: Whatever path you take, laptimes stay about the same. I used to take the low downforce path, because the other cars could at least not easily pass me on the straights. But at the last Spa event it bit me hard, as I had a big moment through Eau Rouge in the second lap already where I was more than just lucky not to completely destroy my (or another drivers!) car.

    But although I drive the M6 almost exclusively, whenever I try the AMG, I'm nearly instantly faster with it than with the M6. Not so much with the Audi. Mid-engined cars are not my cup of tea. Just two examples...

    Maybe I'm still doing something completely wrong. But I also saw really good drivers like Jardier having so much problems with the lack of stability and performance of the M6, that he refused to drive it any further. And although I didn't get it any faster, at least I know how to stabilize it. :cool:
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Ratings:
    +301 / 0
    The M6 is just slow unfortunately, I doubt it will be looked at individually, as there are more cars in the class that are just hopeless. Will probably have to wait for some other update to the class for it to be looked at again. If that ever happens :p
     
  11. bearr

    bearr Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0
    M6 won at 24 hours spa, he needs attention! More Power:cool:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Ratings:
    +283 / 0
    Well, the gap HAS been reduced and it's really not far away from most of the other GT3s anymore. A few tenths per lap at most - depending on track characteristic and drivers preferences - I'd assume.

    But I'm curious. I know you mostly drive the Bentley in GT3. I usually don't test around with this one as I find it to be - well, what can I say - ugly. :D And I know you're very fast in this one. Being heavy and fast in a straight line is a characteristic the Bentley shares with the M6. So, does it also share the problems I (and probably others) have with the M6? Is it also notoriously unstable through Eau Rouge, unless you use a lot of rear wing? But you say the M6 is slow, so I guess you get along better with the Bentley, right? Or do you just like the Bentley so much, that you don't care for its shortcomings and since you're still faster than most others there's no reason to not use it? :)

    Maybe I should just try it myself, but I'd like to know what a serial winner thinks about this. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Andy Kettler

    Andy Kettler Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Ratings:
    +576 / 0
    M6 and Bentley are big but not heavy... Both are 1300kg... Audi R8 is 1340kg... AMG 1320kg...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Ratings:
    +301 / 0
    I drive the Bentley purely because I love it and because it's very challenging to drive because of the insane torque. It does share the same boaty feeling with the M6, but none of the instability, except for self induced ones with the throttle at low speed :p It is actually a slight misconception that the Bentley is very fast in a straight line. It is very good (maybe the fastest) in 3rd and 4th gear, but it loses out to even the 650S at high speeds. Once you go into 6th all acceleration stops :( very painful on tracks like Spa.

    It could be that I just don't know how to drive the M6, but I can jump in the C7 and go faster than in the bentley in a couple of laps. While in the M6 I'm up to a second slower per lap... The car feels good, I honestly wouldn't know where it is losing all that time, would need an in-depth comparison to find that out.

    edit: about the instability, in the Bentley it is 100% stable on 0 wing in Eau Rouge.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Stickdeath1980

    Stickdeath1980 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2018
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0
    C7 is easy mode lol In most sim's i've raced seems most easy to jump in the C7
    i'm puzzled because i'll do 2.03's around bathurst in the Z4 and jump in M6 and about 4 sec's off the pace!! love the car handles super well seem's the gearing is slightly wrong or could be me default set up's in a few car's needs to be looked at
     
  16. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Ratings:
    +283 / 0
    Hmmm...do you have any source for that?

    According to Audi and Wikipedia the R8 LMS weighs 1.225 kg (on the Audi page you need to scroll down a little bit).

    I couldn't find any official weight-info about the AMG, but according to Wikipedia it weighs 1.285 kg.

    I can't find any more info about the first generation of the Bentley GT3, but I remember looking it up and it said "<1.300 kg", which is still the same for the new Bentley GT3 AND oddly enough exactly what BMW and Wikipedia say about the M6 GT3.

    Of course "less than 1.300 kg" could potentially mean a lot. But I also remember asking @Alex Hodgkinson about this and he also told me the BMW weighs 1.300 kg and is the heaviest GT3 car. I assumed that in this case he was referring to the RR-car and not the real one because at this point we were specifically talking about the M6 in RR. So I think at least the virtual M6 in RR weighs 1.300 vkg and no other GT3 in RR has more weight. We were not talking about the Bentley any more, but I guessed that it must have the same weight in RR since the official data said the same as for the M6 GT3.
     
  17. 2Lame2Aime

    2Lame2Aime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Ratings:
    +75 / 0
    You forgot that both engine power and car weight are depending on BOP.;)
    So the data from the manufacturers are not 100% accurate. In real life these values can vary from championship to championship.

    Nevertheless I also find that the BOP could be slightly optimised in favor of the M6
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  18. Andy Kettler

    Andy Kettler Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Ratings:
    +576 / 0
    RR Store pages for the cars ^^
     
  19. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Ratings:
    +1,165 / 0
    I've been reading along, but off the top of my head I can't remember any of the numbers which are being discussed.

    It's definitely worth me saying that any performance numbers found from manufacturers with a quick Google should be approached with caution. I've found that power numbers are usually very understated. Weights are sometimes quoted with, sometimes without driver onboard. Then there's the BoP weight, which could be +60kg with some cars.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. rad

    rad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +415 / 0
    • Like Like x 1