Brake with or without ABS in gt3

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by benoityip, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. benoityip

    benoityip Member

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    In my real street car as shown in my profile picture. if abs is engaged, the brake pedal has force feedback to prevent me from stepping further.

    I know in real life that if you can brake without abs engaged, you have the shortest braking distance.

    Should I use ABS in raceroom in GT3 cars? How is ABS simulated in raceroom? How do I know whether abs is engaged?

    Some info
    https://www.worldtimeattack.com/index.php/motorsport-abs-why-you-need-it/
     
  2. Timmy L

    Timmy L Well-Known Member

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    Hello.
    ABS, very simply put, stops the wheels locking under heavy braking. Thus stopping you quicker, in a shorter distance, and in a safer manner.
    In real life, ABS should be used, it is safer.
    Us old people remember the days when we did not have it..
    Not good...
    GT3 use ABS, it is the regulations, they cannot switch it off..
    RR will setup your car with or without ABS if the real car has it, or does not have. As in, GT3 has it on in real life, so RR puts it on, GT1 cars no ABS, so RR does not turn it on..
    Check your screens in your garage area, i think it tells you there.
    Have fun with the game.
     
  3. KOKORO ga PYONPYON

    KOKORO ga PYONPYON Well-Known Member

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    ABS can be used in some categories (GT3,GT4,etc).
    ABS can be turned off or set to 0% by setting.
    But ABS will be smarter than most people's feet.:D
    With advances in technology, both ABS and TCS will fully support human capabilities.
    Only geniuses like Ayrton Senna can surpass computers.

    Reliance on ABS and TCS in motor sports is never embarrassing.:oops:
    It Technologies to make effective use are also one of the skills of the driver.
    Please turn it on and enjoy.:)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  4. GrimeyDog

    GrimeyDog Active Member

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    For Me I always turn ABS and TCS Off... Yes I know its there to be used and helps alot of times... but because i have had ABS Off for soo long I find with ABS on I Need to start Braking earlier so I just prefer to Not use it... Its a learning curve to be able to drive with it Off but once you get the hang of it your laps will be the same or better.

    The Benefit of ABS/TCS off is you teach yourself Not to Brake/Throttle Mash... With ABS/TCS On you generally Can/ will Stomp the Brakes/Gas with No care or concern and Go...But take note Even with ABS/TCS On you still must work on proper Brake/Throttle Control to be fast... ABS/TCS On just equals your Less Likely to spin out but cant a Guarentee better lap time.

    I advise for Off line racing Practice with ABS/TCS Off...Once you get a Good Grip on Brake/Throttle Control you will find that each 1 has its own benefits and it really depends on your driving style.

    ABS/TCS On = Car is overall more Stable Less Likely to Spin Out.

    ABS/ TCS Off = Car is a Tad Less Stable but easier to Adjust Racing Line by Trail Braking or Throttle Steering.

    Its a Matter of preference so find which works best for you... There is No Right or Wrong.
     
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  5. benoityip

    benoityip Member

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    @GrimeyDog
    I am with you. I am playing GT2 cars currently, turn ABS off and TC off sometimes. I also play other cars such as FR2 and FR3. I just don't want to develop a bad habit of hitting the brake to the bottom all the time, which is why the reason I am not playing much GT3 cars

    I tracked my real car in the rain and ABS kicked in a few times, there is a force in the brake pedal to resist me from pressing the brake

    There is a reason I ask ABS here, is I doubt whether ABS is modelled properly in raceroom. As far as I understand, ABS does not mean no locking at all. Once minor lock is detected, it reduces the braking force. You can check the second video below.

    In real life, ABS can be adjusted, similar to traction control, take a look at iracing


    ABS also has skid marks, and threshold braking is shorter than ABS
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  6. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    The feeling you have in your road car pedal when ABS is activated is the control unit redirecting brake pressure away from the wheel which is on the verge of locking up.

    The true advantage of a good modern ABS system is that it enables a vehicle to still manoeuvre during hard braking which would otherwise lock the wheels and cause the car to continue straight ahead. So, it's not about stopping distances, it's for increasing the ability to trail brake and also removing the possibility of flat-spotting a tyre.

    Having said that, not all ABS systems are capable of this torque-vectoring, so you will find that in game that none-factory ABS isn't quite as good as a factory-fitted system.
     
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  7. Timmy L

    Timmy L Well-Known Member

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    ABS is about reducing stopping distances, in the first instance.
    ‘(NHTSA) study found that ABS increased stopping distances on loose gravel by an average of 27.2 percent.’
    And that is on gravel.
    Thus making driving a road car safer.
    Increased movability under heavy brake is also a plus, as stated by Alex.
    In a road car you should press the brake as hard as you can, if you need to stop quickly, and let the ABS system do its stuff.
    Before we had ABS we had to pump the brake pedal to try and stop the wheels from locking, which is something that most people do not do when faced with the stress of hit something, or someone..
    So, people locked the wheels and skidded into ‘things’, not good.
    ABS is about reducing stopping distance, in the first instance.
    In the second instance, movability, so you can move around the ‘thing’ you missed..
    Hopefully.
    Just ask the car manufacturers, insurance companies, safety groups etc.
    Or, for a bit of fun get a quote for the same road car, with ABS, and one ABS deactivate, and compare..
     
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  8. [RWB] FxUK

    [RWB] FxUK Well-Known Member

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    From my understanding, the primary purpose for ABS in cars was designed to help drivers retain steering control under breaking by preventing the wheels locking up and not so much to do with stopping distances, as Alex says.

    Obviously, it was developed before this, but :p
     
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  9. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    That doesn't apply to racing cars though, different game entirely. A good driver will brake more efficiently without ABS. ABS is used in GT3 as it is also a gentleman's racer class and some of them aren't so good..... More consistent with ABS maybe, but quicker? No.
     
  10. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    abs or not to abs ..... well before you even think of this , look down at your feet , are your pedals capable of replicating a normal car , old school , so vacuum assisted hydraulic ..... so some tension , but no need to hit with 100kg of force , or a racecars , where you have to really push to get to maximum braking if they cant then id leave the abs on

    Andi
     
  11. Timmy L

    Timmy L Well-Known Member

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    ‘I know in real life that if you can brake without abs engaged, you have the shortest braking distance.’
    From the opening post.
    Not true.
    The experts say that, I am just repeating it.
    If you bother to read what I have written, ‘movability’ stated by Alex and myself.
    I never mentioned ‘race cars’..
    The remark about some GT3 drivers not being, ‘so good’, is rather rude, and very far from true.
    Still, you are allowed your opinion.
     
  12. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Fairly irrelevant. Given that most people down use heusinkveld ultimate pedals are you suggesting they don't drive most of the cars in RR? Only a few have ABS after all.
     
  13. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    It's not rude at all and it is very true. In many championships GT3 cars are run as pro-am. Not an opinion. Fact.
     
  14. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    being an Am doesnt mean your not good it just means you dont earn your living as a driver

    Andi
     
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  15. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Have a look at the laptime difference between the driver pairings in British GT for example. The am driver is clearly not as fast, it's not even a debating point.
     
  16. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    did some one puncture your football today ?

    there are very many Am drivers that are very quick , but we have to look at there ratings aswell , bronze, silver , gold etc

    yes some pay there seats but then again some are payed ....

    Andi
     
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  17. DaniloE31

    DaniloE31 Well-Known Member

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    While there is something true in your sentence... or better: your sentence would have been true in 1988 ;)
    Modern ABS systems are very capable of sensing this threshold and regulate the hydraulic pressure to keep you breaking at optimum % slippage.
    Wouldn't Ayrton be dead, I'd say humans can do this too...
     
  18. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick question in between. When exactly does abs start intervening? When the system notices the wheels are starting to lock or even before that when it thinks theyre going to start locking very soon so i better stop that from happening in the first place? And if the latter is the case how long before the first bit of locking does it intervene?
     
  19. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I don't play football. You may be a moderator on here but that doesn't mean your opinion is worth more or that you are always right. This is one of those times when you definitely aren't. I look forward to the sarcastic yet unfunny reply.
     
  20. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    what im trying to say is that there are some very good am drivers out there that in the overall results the am teams finish before the pro teams in many endurance races ,sometimesif the results werent seperated they would have got a podium in the pro class for there car .
    sometimes sweeping statements about this or that may havea sense of truth but arent globally factual..

    as for moderation , truth and opinon none are important , this is my opinion based on what i have experienced, and seen from watching motorsports for many years

    Andi