Bug Broken FFB(TMX PRO)

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by R.Noctua, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    i would suggest playing around with the rack setting in the ffb , also any chance you can upload the rcs that you are using at present please

    Andi
     
  2. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    You can find mine in the thread I started about this problem. Thomas Jansen's edit didn't fix the problem for me.
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/problem-with-new-ffb-on-g25.14181/#post-192985

    I really spent a lot of time experimenting with different settings. Nothing brings any life to the FFB.

    And it seems that devs have decided to ignore my further posts regarding this issue.
     
  3. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    one , no one is ignoring it , thats for sure
    the issue there are ppl saying its fantastic , there are people saying its bad , on exactly the same hardware ... so please stop assuming nothing is being done as this is not in anyway factual
    now we have a mix of physics so some cars will feel dramatically different due to the tyres and steering geometry reacting with the ffb

    so please just because there isnt an answer to each one of your posts dont assume no one is looking at it

    Andi
     
  4. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    I was testing on the latest cars M4 GT4 and Porsche GT2 RS Clubsport. I believe their physics should work with the new FFB the best. But I also drove cars with old physics and there's no difference.

    I'm not assuming anything else than what I see. My conclusion of ignoring was based on the fact I haven't had any answers after those messages with Thomas Jansen. What I've said about this was that no dev has told us this will be inspected and it will be fixed. If there was such message elsewhere I haven't noticed it.

    Maybe you can understand that it's a bit frustrating that problem of this scale goes without any promise of help for two months. And same time it seems that lots of little fixes and bugs get sorted out.
     
  5. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    The keyword is "cannot reproduce". Maybe there is a problem under certain circumstances, but they can't reproduce it. Apart from that, the number of users reporting this problem is tiny compared to the number of people playing the game. Like it has been said already, there are lots of players with exactly the same hardware where everything works as expected.
     
  6. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for considering the problem, I will send the configuration file tonight.
    And there are many users who have problems.
    Some users to overlooked the problem, so everyone is happy - a technical problem cannot be a feeling problem. Yeah, well, the less know, the better sleep.

    If you worked in the field of car repair, you would understand that most people do not even have theoretical knowledge. The maximum is to check the oil. And they're all sure that their car is fine, but when you point out to them the technical flaws, they're sure that they're being cheated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  7. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    I find it interesting that other users try to prevent other users from getting help. And come here speaking in behalf of the devs.

    If you happen to encounter a bug that prevents you from using RaceRoom, please remind me that I'll come by and drop a message saying "well others don't have a problem, please stop whining". I'm sure you fill find it very helpful.
     
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  8. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    Did you ever try to fully remove your wheel drivers as shown here?
     
  9. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    I did normal remove and reinstall of the drivers as was suggested earlier. It didn't make any sense though as my wheel works perfectly in every other sim and worked perfectly in RaceRoom before the update. It's hard to see how this was a driver issue. Especially when it has now been seen that the same issue exists with other than Logitech wheels too.
     
  10. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, was just a suggestion. Corrupted driver sometimes act really weird and cause illogical mayhem.
    Nevertheless I hope your problem gets solved.
     
  11. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    I can try it just to narrow out that possibility. Thank you - you're trying to help, not saying we should just go away.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  12. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

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  13. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    try this and try and explain what has changed

    Andi
     

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  14. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    I work in the field of software development, so I also know this phenomenon very well...
    I'm not saying that you should go away, I'm just saying that your bug report is utterly useless for any developer out there, especially considering that you have posted the same thing around 30 times now.
     
  15. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

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    I have also made a support ticket which has thorough information about my setup and description of the problem. That's where the useful information is. If you don't know everything don't go assuming others are plain stupid. I worked in IT from 1991 to 2010 and few years of that was in software development too. I know something about finding and fixing errors.

    Just above you are saying it's useless for me to discuss this on the forum. What else does that mean than "go away"? I really wonder why does it bother you that other people seek help to their problems? You could also ask yourself what good or helpful did your intervening bring to this discussion?

    If you'd buy let's say an electronic device price of 70-90 euros and that device would stop working. Would you 1) think that "oh this is fine, I'll just stop using it" or would you 2) contact the manufacturer and try to get it fixed? And if the manufacturer wouldn't promise you that they will fix it, would you once again 1) stop asking or 2) keep the subject up?

    It's easy to go criticising others when your are not affected. Sometimes it would be helpful to think how you would feel in the other guys shoes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  16. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Andi!

    I tried it tonight - FFB became "dirty" and it felt like the "slip effect" was too strong. Min force did not appear, it just feels the shift of the front wheels strongly. And the second problem - progressive force on the steering wheel - it is too heavy with the right FFB-monitor.

    After that I set the default settings and tested it on Corvette GT3/M6 GT3/Porsche GT3. Overall it is an example of an excellent FFB, but with one problem - minumum force.

    Since this rudder is cheap, there are the following problems: it has 1-2 degrees of dead zone, probably that's why it gets after turning through 0 zone. As I see a theoretical solution to the problem:

    Increase min force: 7 is the maximum value after which there will be no impact, but at 7 there is no feeling of roughness of the road. It may be necessary to raise the minimum FFB threshold to 12-15, but without the feeling of centering the steering wheel should be the same as at 7.

    Please understand correctly - all this was compared on the example of the BMW M6, that is in every game, not just "I think and feel this way. The comparison is not exactly with the behavior of the car, but the minimum FFB. :)

    My English isn't so good, but I hope I was able to explain the problem in detail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  17. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    drop the steering rack to 20

    Andi
     
  18. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

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    Tried it. Just like dropping it to 0. It doesn't have any effect, although I read that on the other wheels it removes the centering.

    For TMX: —Āentering effect = minimum force. The greater the minimum force, the greater the centering.
    7 - correct centering, but no min FFB
    11-15 - correct min FFB, but so mutch centrering

    Question: how can remove centering at min force 12-15?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  19. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    @R.Noctua

    I have a t300 so can't speak directly for the tmx. But what I found with my wheel was that the min force if too high does indeed cause a horrible centre notch.

    I found that running higher minimum force did not really help with anything and that (on my wheel) 4 was the highest I could go without any bad effects being introduced.

    I can't see your settings as I'm away from my pc pc for a good while. Can I suggest (if you haven't already) trying raising the vertical and lateral force. Keep them equal but try 60-70. Also they raising the steering force. Also on a per car basis it's important to play with the ffb multiplier, I find it often needs raising.

    Having driven most Sims I will say that "road feel" isn't as strong in raceroom so on that basis you may be disappointed. It is being looked into though.

    Regarding lack of dev input on here, the dev team is small and very busy, so they don't personally check everything on here. As a member of the beta team, one of our tasks is to test and pass on user problems. If we can reproduce them then an entry is made in the internal bug tracker and the issue is assigned to a dev for investigation. Progress isn't always fast on these things as the problem can be hard to pin down and analyse without access to every kind of wheel available etc. All problems are taken seriously though and the fact that some people are having problems with ffb since the December update is a concern to us all.
     
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  20. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

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    I think that's more than the full answer I could get. Thank you!
    About the question of vertical and lateral force: honestly, I'm already confused about the settings and afraid to make the wrong claim that makes FFB better or worse - simple just going to try to do what you wrote.


    Suppose that people with cheap wheels don't get min FFB because it requires a more expensive steering wheel that can transmit min FFB properly. In other simracing games, this threshold is rather artificially inflated (?).


    In general, we'll wait for a change. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020