Bug Broken FFB(TMX PRO)

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by R.Noctua, Feb 6, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    This was good to hear as it was the first time I saw an actual promise that this will be investigated.

    My frustration on this issue has mostly been about the communication. If the first answer would have been "your problem is real, we hear you, we will inspect this and fix this", there would be no problem. I'm willing to wait if I know it's being worked on. What I saw was talks about this being subjective issue or matter of taste. Or just messages simply left without answer.

    As I wrote to @majuh I have also worked in software development. Of course our business model was totally different but it was never an option not to communicate with customer or leave customer guessing if their case was being worked on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Ratings:
    +147 / 0 / -0
    Well, you wondered why you weren't getting any answer by the devs that the problem will be fixed, so I told you that this expectation is wildly unrealistic. It's really not my job to be good or helpful in this forum. Of course I also could've ignored you like everyone else, but I thought I'd give at least a bit of insight into the development process.

    When you have a small business, this is true, but at a certain business size, it becomes completely unfeasible. As the famous saying goes: You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
     
  3. IndEnt

    IndEnt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +73 / 0 / -0
    I have tested CSL-Elite, TS-PC and I own T300 - there is nothing wrong with comsumer wheels (see other SIMs).
    The best would be, we have a Road-Effects-Slider (% or multiplier) in the FFB-Settings - curbs feels great, besides track also - why not on track?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +483 / 0 / -0
    Its being investigated right now. All the information is there, from suspension traces we can see that the track bumps exist....it's a matter of finding a way to transfer them to a ffb force that feels believable.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    That would be perfect. :)
     
  6. IndEnt

    IndEnt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +73 / 0 / -0
    Hey - that sounds great ... thanx for quick-info!!!
     
  7. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    If you noticed I just got the answer I was after. So was it wildly unrealistic?

    It really shows that it's not your job to be good or helpful. Yet you feel you have lot to say. People like you exist.

    It's really healthy to work even some time in small company having small number of big customers. You tend to understand better that it's not the company that pays your salary, it's the customer. Understanding this changes the way you treat your customers.

    Of course I understand that Sector 3 can easily turn their back to 20-50 customers. We all probably own all the content and the loss is what will not purchase in the future. That's peanuts. Even the reputation hit isn't very big. I know all this. Yet I still believe it's in their best interest to try to fix as much bugs as they can. And that's what ravey1981 just said they are doing.
     
  8. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Ratings:
    +147 / 0 / -0
    I mean, I really don't want to step on anyone's toes, especially not the beta testers and the developers, but that answer wasn't from a dev, and ravey1981's posts make it pretty clear that both devs and beta testers still think everything works as intended which directly contradicts your assumptions on page 1 of this thread. It's fine in my opinion to add more FFB options, but then again the community used to shit on Project CARS 1 for having too many FFB options...

    Yes, I agree with that.
     
  9. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    Of course you feel you have to move the goal when your prediction went wrong. You had nothing to say about the issue itself, you just came here with your assumptions what devs do or don't do. Zero information value. Without you this thread would be about the issue, now it's littered with this nonsense.

    I tagged the devs because I didn't know who else to tag. It's irrelevant if answer comes from beta tester or dev as long as they represent Sector 3 here.

    And blaming me for wanting more FFB options is just a straw man. I have never asked for that.

    As I have said many times in these threads I just wanted to know that Sector 3 is inspecting this and working on this. That's the answer I got. Deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  10. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Ratings:
    +498 / 0 / -0
    I think it's better to let it rest now. Don't try to win every fight with people who are just trying to give you advice.
    You don't like the advice some people give you ? Just say "thanks for the advice" and ignore it.

    No, i'm not a mod or o dev, but it's just a friendly advice ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    His advice was to keep quiet about this issue as he knew that I wasn't going to get an answer. After the said advice it was just derailing and distracting the conversation about the issue itself. I don't see that as very constructive behaviour and I said that.

    I believe he has the freedom to stop any time too. Especially after being proved wrong. So your advice should go to both of us.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  12. RoccoTTS

    RoccoTTS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Ratings:
    +498 / 0 / -0
    I repeat : let it rest. Does al this arguing solve your problem ?
     
  13. Esa Ahonen

    Esa Ahonen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    No it doesn't. You're right. Just got annoyed by that attempt to distract the discussion. So it's quit from me.
     
  14. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Ratings:
    +147 / 0 / -0
    My prediction from post #17 literally came true, but whatever...
     
  15. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +483 / 0 / -0
    I think this is a little unfair to be honest. I already explained that Devs don't jump in on every topic on these forums. And as I said it is acknowledged that some users particularly on lower end wheels aren't getting what the need from the ffb. These issues are not being ignored.
     
  16. R.Noctua

    R.Noctua Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2019
    Ratings:
    +63 / 0 / -0
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Ratings:
    +147 / 0 / -0
    Do you think it's a general problem with these wheels? With my Logitech Momo, FFB feels absolutely fine to me in terms of what you can expect with an ancient wheel like that. It's mostly about playing around with the minimum force to find a balance between no feeling on the straights due to the hardware deadzone and oscillations. The FFB is not really different from the FFB in other sims in this regard.
     
  18. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +483 / 0 / -0
    I certainly don't think the FFB is fundamentally flawed. As I've said I'm pretty happy with how it feels on my t300 which is certainly not a high end wheel. I'd say that during the cornering phase most people are reasonably happy but it's on the straights where the wheel can feel a bit lifeless, compared to some other sims at least. What we are looking at is trying to boost the small forces (bumps through the suspension) without ruining the rest. Since all aspects of the ffb are connected it's not just a case of being able to turn one thing up. Its a misconception that increasing minimum force does this, all that does is boost everything below a certain level up to a set value, it's not linear, it's all or nothing, so you get a sudden "wall" of force which can feel very notchy. Minimum force is really only for eliminating deadzone on Logitech wheels (as you will know). Other wheels need next to no minimum force (eg t300 mine is on 3, any higher feels terrible).

    There are a few things that are being looked at to try to help with what some users feel they are missing. There won't be another ground up redesign of the ffb, but certainly some tweaks here and there are possible.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1