Yikes, I was only ribbing Nate there fella, I actually think the perceived "class divide" in the Brexit vote is a pointless and unhelpful way to look at it and only makes it harder to discuss the actual issues raised. Marx's view of the "proles" was infantile 100 years ago still has nothing to do with modern working people
Not at all. I said nothing about you whatsoever. Read the last paragraph I wrote once more to see what the comment was about. It isnt as simple as a class divide voting a certain way for 1 single reason. There are a plethora of reasons there may be a class divide on a certain issue. But, perhaps there is too much passion and the stakes too high here to maintain a calm demeanor in this thread. My apologies. This is the point I was trying to make... clearly uneloquently
What I have learned from politics is that the most important things don't get publicly discussed. In the case of EU, when big banks got in trouble in Greece, the muppet politicians were ready to serve them, bending original EU-agreements. This is the problem, which only gets masquaraded by various moralist views on less significant matters.
Well I'm married to an immigrant (she's French), which probably makes me biased, especially as I doubt I would have met her if it wasn't for the free movement of Labour the EU allows...
See there's the thing, I have a sneaky suspicion your lovely wife would not come in the category the British public would class as a immigrant.
There are different grades, different shades of "being foreign". Cultural and regional closeness has lots to do with it (shared history helps further), as well as integration-willingness of the foreigner. Migrant groups from different origins/cultures vary regarding the latter. It makes no sense to just speak of "the immigrants". You have to differentiate between them. With some groups from certain cultures and/or countries, you have no problems, with others you have plenty of problems. Do not generalise. Differentiate. There is nothing like the prototypic migration. There is migration from many different places. Statistics show us that with some we have more problems than with others, some are completely ordinary, unobtrusive, while others are the dominant entry in the statistics category - sometimes for the positive, but more often for the negative. The word discrimination originally means right this: to be aware of the differences there are. You discriminate between red, and blue. States must have the right to discriminate foreigners asking to be allowed to live in these. So must the local people have the right to decide whom they want and whom not. Nobody has any right at all to jiust enforce himself onto others and demanding them that they need to adapt to him. You have to ask, and if the answer is No, you have to leave, you have no further claim, your claim is just for asking, not more. No claim that you must be given Yes as a reply. Yes, I want discrimination - in the meaning of what it really means: seeing differences that are real and do not seize to exist just because ideology forbids it. Political correctness fetishists hate me. I learned to find it most amusing. You should also discriminate between refugee and migrant. The refugee flees from disaster, and asks for shelter. But it must be clear that this is just temporary. Once the immediate danger is gone, he has to leave. Which he will find the more difficult maybe, the longe rhe has stayed and learned how inferior the life conditions in his place of origion are. It cannot be helped. When I help accident victims I happen to find (twice in my life), I help(ed ) - but that does not mean I accept to hold their hands and feel responsible for them for the rest of my life. And I accept no claim of theirs for me. I do/did what I do/did voluntarily - or I do it not. That criterion of voluntariness, freedom that is, is non-negotiable.
Does the UK not guarantee human rights? Many of the articles in the human rights charta directly derive from the biggest contribution England has ever made to humanity, the Magna Charta. The thing is that health care is not an EU policy, it is handled by each country on its own. So what happens in that department is primarily subject to your national government, especially the funding and distribution of money. The EU's role is to complement national policies, which they do mainly via their health programme: http://ec.europa.eu/health/programme/docs/factsheet_healthprogramme2014_2020_en.pdf I will, if you promise to work out how much those immigrants contribute to your country's GDP. Cause the majority of those people don't come to your country to go to the hospital for free (because, as you pointed out yourself, your health service isn't exactly the finest), they go there to find work, by which they also fund your country, f.e. the NHS.
Yeh, but I think most would disagree with that, don't get me wrong alot do come over for the correct reasons but a hell of alot don't, they come over just to get freebies, or work cash in hand, which makes it so easy for them to hide, personally I don't give dam why they come over, most of these people don't integrate into the community well, they can't be arsed to either learn English, or just pretend they don't speak it, the crime levels have gone up, and when you watch the reports on crimes, most of the names ain't English I can assure you, also people seem to forget, and most of Europe seem to forget we are one hell of a small island, and having this very large rat tunnel linking us to France, 'which alot didn't want on both sides' and Im not including the French general public in the next bit, the border control over there are quite frankly shite. You can never really tell who is crossing what border, hense why these small terrorist attacks are spreading across a larger amount of Europe, we are making there work so much easier, and for the British EU vote was another big player in how the votes went. As for he/she has to leave once immediate danger has gone, that never happens, the customs/government over here forever lose their own arse, let alone immigrants/refugee's. What even worst at this moment of time, the Con..servative party have to choose between a blonde buffoon and a old women who has the touch of death.
Boris Johnson rules himself out of Conservative leader race http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36672591
Not entirely surprised, I don't think he expected to win (nor necessarily even wanted to...) and doesn't want to deal with the mess he's partially responsible for creating.
Well, but that doesn't necessarily make their assumption right, does it? http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6399/economics/impact-of-immigration-on-uk-economy/ http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk
Seems that @DirtyriceTX disagrees with almost everything I've posted here, including facts reported by the BBC (Boris Johnson not standing for Conservative party leader) and my wife's citizenship status Now I understand you might not agree with my point of view and accept that, but how can you disagree on factual reporting?
No, do not leave the discussion. Take a deep breath, controll your self and continue. I read with great interest
Don't know if anyone else looked at the map of the result in the UK, lets not forget here, Scotland wanted to go alone last year, now just imagine the result if they couldn't vote, it would of been a landslide to leave..