Question Cut Track Warnings

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by Azfalt Raser, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser Well-Known Member

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    Had a few questions about Cut Track Warnings.

    What are the primary reasons for Cut Track warnings in Raceroom?
    Is that just a catch all phrase for exceeding track limits in designated areas?
    Is it to give drivers incentive to stay on track?
    Why invalidate a lap, where no advantage can be gained?
    Is it just general rules the sim is programmed with?

    My interpretation of "cut track" meant a driver could gain an advantage by cutting a corner/track.
    You can, depending on the surface, gain an advantage by sometimes "exceeding track limits" on the exit of a corner too.

    Exits to Turn 2, 3A, and 10 at Sonoma are examples.
    In each case, when you run off into the dirt, the car slows down drastically, even if you floor the gas pedal.
    No advantage can be gained.
    "Cut track" warning.
    In races, a slowdown penalty at those locations are recipes for disaster for the cars behind.

    Not that it's happened to me....I was just curious.
     
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  2. shardshunt

    shardshunt Well-Known Member

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    Invalid laps only matter in qually so i see now downside to laps being invalidated when running wide and it helps avoid exploits. If you run wide onto dirt you will usually lose too much time for the lap to be worth counting anyway so who cares if the lap is invalid, and if you didn't lose much time then clearly you should have been penalized as you could have gained an advantage.

    really it just makes the game rules consistent and avoids confusion and exploits.
     
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  3. Mich Angel

    Mich Angel Well-Known Member

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    Yea... but I still think the car who get a slowdown penelty when that is used shuld be ghosted before the penalty set in, to avoid havoc for other drivers. The one who got the slowdown penalty have already got one penalty, geting smashed of the track from behind and causing other to lose there position too maby end of race if car breaks down is not a valid penalty for runing of the track side 2sec. IMO... ;)
     
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  4. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser Well-Known Member

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    yeah, I have experience that too.
    Getting hit from behind and pushed off track and while trying to get back on track, have to serve a slow down penalty and causing a big accident.

    It would be way too complicated to "place fault" in an accident and assess or not assess penalties - with coding. Just too many scenarios to cover.

    Besides "no virtual drivers or cars were harmed during the playing of this game....":p
     
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  5. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser Well-Known Member

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    Just revisiting this issue after watching the winner of the Thrustmaster contest lap.
    The player played by the rules and I congratulate him for a fantastic lap.


    But....watching the lap, I think the car exceeds track limits 10 times? I get a cut track warning for 2 wheels over the white line at Suzuka (final chicane to the front straight). Is it just a matter of experimenting and learning where one can ignore track limits?

    So, what are the cut track/track limit/invalid lap rules?
     
  6. Kitsune Magyar

    Kitsune Magyar Professional Betatester Developer

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    Two wheels over the white line is fine, that should never result in a penalty. In some cases going off track is fine too since you won't gain any time. I think I remember some reports of areas where we might have to review how lenient we are but I don't know what was decided regarding that.
     
  7. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. :cool:
    For the immersion, I am all for driving a track (or line) like the pros do it - but their rules are evolving.
    It seems like such a black and white issue (the track limit is the white lines - don't put all 4 wheels over that white line), but there is a gray area where it is allowed. Some drivers know those spots, some don't. Some take advantage, some don't. I'm not talking about off track excursions.

    I suppose it's something that "would be nice" if we had consistent cut track/track limit warnings so everyone is on the same footing without actively looking for the gray area. Just my opinion.

    Thanks for the response. :)
     
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  8. Kitsune Magyar

    Kitsune Magyar Professional Betatester Developer

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    I personally agree. It should always be obvious where the racing line is. The moment there are some parts of the track where you can disregard rules and cut to earn time it will create an environment where some think it's "fair" because everyone can do it and some think it's cheating because it's technically breaking the rules.
    If I understood J-F correctly any cut that earns time will lead to a penalty so if there are tracks where it's possible to do that I'm sure it will be fixed in the future.
     
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  9. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    Cant remember the tracks off the top of my head im sure one is Suzuka, running wide on the outside of a bend into gravel has resulted in a slow down penalty, Spa is another of the same. The gravel is punishment enough and there is nothing to be gained going wide off into gravel. Will try and remember next time and post it here.

    Red bull ring, if i run wide before final turn..........slow down turning into final turn spins me everytime i get one there, could they not be forced to be taken on a str8? Same at Sonoma in the Capri run a little wide after the big sweeping left hander, always spins me as the penalty is applied 2 seconds later the car is str8 and stable and lots of room to slow down in.
     
  10. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser Well-Known Member

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    I happened to watch old videos of my own laps at spa....surprisingly, I exceeded track limits (all 4 wheels over) 8 times.
    And those laptimes ARE faster than when I adhered to "only 2 wheels over" rule - or respect track limits.

    As for cut track warnings at other places........which end in slowdown penalties...
    Why not apply the slowdown penalty on the longest straight? Or the before the finish line on the front straight?
    a) You know of the penalty in advance
    b) You can plan for it by pulling off to the side down the longest straightaway
    c) Lessen the chance of someone rear ending you or impacting a race by causing an inadvertent crash

    Another suggestion
    Car automatically becomes translucent (like wrecker prevention) when you receive a slowdown penalty.
    a) cars can drive right through you without causing a crash
    b) gives you time to pull over before the car becomes whole again
    c) shows other drivers you are receiving a penalty
    This seems like the simplest approach.
     
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  11. c3lix

    c3lix Active Member

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    There are tracks where even 2 tires over the line is too much like SPA in real life. Racerooms SPA version is probably correct with the 2 tire rule there but not realistic.
     
  12. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by this exactly? Are you saying even 2 tires over the white line at Spa in real life would be considered a cut? Cant quite tell. But that seems to be how many drivers race on the track, especially on corners like Pouhon.

    I think people sometimes forget, or perhaps more accurately, dont take into consideration that RR is just a game. It doesnt strive for 100% hardcore accuracy that is true to real life, because that is never going to happen. The cut rules in RR need to make sense from a game perspective, and while not completely consistent in my experience on every single track, the cut rules are also constantly being looked at and improved.

    Spa for instance has been in the works for a very, very long time. I have also been pushing the devs to tighten them up as Spa was way too lenient for way too long. This recent patch in November did well to tighten them up though. :)

    However, one persons "too lenient" is another persons "too strict" as I have seen discussed plenty of times before on this very forum, even with people who have posted in this thread :D

    The one nice thing about the cut rules, however lenient or strict someone perceives them... is that they are exactly the same for everyone. While racing, everyone can make use of the same rules. Although, I tend to play by self imposed rules of never exploiting lenient cut track spots. And i know plenty of other respectable people that do the same.

    In competitions and leaderboards though, you will have people who really want to be on top. They will likely already be skilled and fast, and drive a track well. On top of that, they will likely know how to get the most out of a car via car setup, and of course knowing how to exploit the cut track rules to give themselves the best possible times.

    None of that is illegal since everyone can do it. Even if some of the above is ethically questionable and unsportsmanlike. Frankly, if you are competing for top spots in competitions, it should be expected that your competitors will be doing whatever they can to win. Im not condoning bad behavior, but people are going to be within a millimeter of illegal just to try to win.

    Luckily though, due to the way RR is inherently designed, actual cheating doesnt seem to occur.
     
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  13. Kitsune Magyar

    Kitsune Magyar Professional Betatester Developer

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    I think that, due to how we add stuff to tracks, it's just a huge load of work to make even such a small change. Don't quote me on that though. I only did very little work on tracks back in 2014 or whenever it was I worked at SimBin so I might remember wrong. :p

    As it is now slowdown will look at where you are on the track and set your max speed based on that. That way it won't be a huge difference between the one serving the penalty and those that don't. It's perhaps not the best solution but a good middle ground.

    I like these ideas.
     
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  14. Mich Angel

    Mich Angel Well-Known Member

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    Well I can agree to that some cuttack penalties need to be looked at and find for example the slowdown a better solution how it is served to prevent it from wrecking someone else's race for that in my book is as much a penalty to the track marshals... eh! Which we don't have any to penalise LOL... But you get my point!
    A penalty should not ever effect other drivers, period!

    And for the nagging about track limits this way and that way to lenient or to strict, I have only one thing to say if you can't follow the track rule and stay on the track it is always your fault as driver if you exceed the limits, your driving made it happen if you get penalised.

    So get with the program, learn to drive on the track where the race is and stop whining about it, or to put it like it is, you are not as good as you think you are if you can't stay on the track. Period! :p
    Just my two cents! ;) happy racing :D
     
  15. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.
    I was going with the "offer some type of workable suggestion"....rather than complaining for the sake of complaining :)

    *****I just want to point out to other folks that I was not insinuating that anyone was/is cheating*****.
    All of us have the same track surface to race on - all can take advantage of what's offered currently by Raceroom tracks.

    The point I was trying to make was, people who adhere to the only 2 tires over the white line would never know to use any exploits (gray areas) available to them under our current cut track rules and "would be nice" if........so on so forth.

    Changing SMALL things in computer games sometimes takes alot of programming. That's why I said "would be nice". I'm sure there are other pressing things you guys need to work on.
     
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