So ive been in here before complaining about dirty drivers and its always the same, you never blame the driver causing the accident, it shouldn't matter if I brake early take a different line its upto the driver behind to read the situation. For example when I go for a track day on my motorbike they make us take our mirrors of or fold them out the way, its the rider behind responsibility to ensure they pass clean with no issue! This guy N Fehn absolutely deliberately rammed me and even said "Bad luck" in the chat after. I would like to see this guy banned and see that he has been banned, if you feel that I am being unreasonable as you can see from the clip even when he was blocking I made sure I didnt touch him he then went wide, did a stupid divebomb it didnt work out, I cut the corner to get past again, so he took me out. If you feel this was my fault which I suspect most people in this forum will as its the defacto reply in here then I would like a full refund of all the money I have spent in this game as you clearly dont really care about driving standards and the big display you have when you join a ranked server is pure fantasy! I had come to terms with the fact that theres alot of bad driving in this game and had been managing that by letting people past that I have encountered previously as its so easy to lose rep, why should I lose 4 incident points if someone hits me. I got my rep back to 88 and out of the last 17 races I have been lost rep in 7 of them mainly due to other players poor driving, me being slower, me braking early, me taking a different line me doing whatever the driver behind should read the situation! Im now back down to 74 rep!
I can understand your frustration but if I were a steward on this race these would be my observations: (1) In the initial phase you are clearly the faster car and you wait patiently behind him looking for an opportunity to pass. (2) He runs wide in Turn 10 and you pass him on the inside but he gets a better exit from his wider position. (3) He uses that better exit to pass you into the chicane. It's a dive bomb sure but he makes it work. (4) You "cut the corner to get past again" (your words). Given this, I would be expecting you to give the place back or I'd be considering a penalty. [EDIT Maskerader makes a good point on this below so I reverse my "decision".] (5) He seems to try another dive-bomb into Turn 13 although its hard to judge relative speeds from the video (and therefore what was reasonable). It's certainly impossible to judge his intentions although I note your view - "This guy... absolutely deliberately rammed me." Nonetheless, it goes badly wrong. He taps your right rear as you turn in causing you to spin. I would probably penalise him for causing a collision as it looks avoidable in the video (but you can never be sure which is why stewarding must be a tough gig). A lifetime ban (which you demand) for what's shown in the video would be absurd. See (5) above.
It's not entirely clear to me that he could've made this turn if he didn't "lean" on the OP's car. IIRC this is the line between "okay divebomb" vs "not okay divebomb" for Raceroom stewards.
Fair point when I watch it again. So you are saying maybe the cut track (my point 4) was unavoidable / reasonable because he was deflected off anyway? I can see that. It does underline how difficult these things are to judge... in my view it's still not ramming (in the chicane). It's racing. And as I said I'd give his opponent a penalty for the contact in Turn 13 and perhaps on what you've said a penalty for the chicane as well (but not a lifetime ban as the OP demands).
Not saying a lifetime ban maybe a week to get the message out to race fairly, I understand rubbing is racing but that was deliberate 100%!
Try posting this video on R3E discord if this thread doesn't get any attention. Not sure about that either, but that's not for me to decide...
I'm sure he didn't drive very cleanly overall. But I don't see any reason to ban him. I've seen much worse where you realise that they are only trying to ruin your race because you overtook them.
By the way when I said I’d give him a hypothetical penalty I meant I’d give him a drive-through or something like that not a ban. In my view for a ban it has to be unambiguously deliberate or reckless and it wasn’t that.
He missed all the previous apexes while driving alone so making the corner was not going to happen this time! I´d say it was a revenge tap for the pass cutting the track but rule it as a racing incident if both cars were on the same lap (battles like these happen all the time in Silhouettes and real life BTCC/DTM) - it does seem the other driver was sleep walking and only woke up when passed, but the last pass by the OP was a track limit violation as already mentioned so you can´t expect other people to behave perfectly when that sort of stuff goes on. One thing I would say about sending replays for official viewing is that there has to be visible telemetry displaying acceleration, braking and steering inputs (is that even in the game?) and that any judgement must be made on a full race replay - we don´t see the respective lines or braking points taken on previous laps to judge dive bombs or normal behaviour.
I think seeing it from both cameras would help but my impression is the cut track pass was not from being forced left by the other pass. If you look at the video, Castrol is well on the right of the kerb and perfectly capable of following the racing line through the chicane but seemed to deliberately move left and cut it to get the position back. Note that in the skirmish there was light lateral contact between both cars but no clear ram or shove. One thing I did see is that both times he was passed, Castrol left the door wide open as if racing alone. I would recommend defending more proactively by blocking off the passing opportunity (move to the right of the track before the braking point) early and decisively or people will aways see a gap and go for it. Sometimes closing the door will result in being passed on corner exit due to not having had the best line but that´s all part of race craft, knowing which line to take in a given moment. Some single player racing against AI or in non ranked servers with friends could help.
So again the general consensus for poor driving is to defend the perpetrator of the incident maybe this is why ranked is a poor clone of a Forza lobby 75% of the time! Lets hope if we ever meet on track I we have an incident together you're all as accommodating and lenient!
I don't want to defend the Guy. But what he showed is not enough for a ban i think. As I said, I've seen much worse people on the track. And this isn't just an RRE problem. I've been iRacing for a few days now (sorry...) and I feel like it's even worse there, and I'm not just talking about the rookie classes...
You see it as defending because you want him no less than banned for an incident that doesn't look like a clearly malicious maneuver. Was he wrong? Oh yes, he was. Was it so bad or obviously malicious that he deserves a ban, even if a temporary one? I'm not sure.
The thing is these racing incidents should be policed by in game incident points and slow down penalties for track cutting. I wouldn´t give 4 incident points to either driver for the chicane skirmish as that´s door to door racing. The track cut was deliberate and gained time so a slow down or give back one position penalty would be deserved - you get one for putting one wheel over the line at Sepang turn 1 and not gaining time. The final clash at the last turn probably warrants 4 points for both drivers - unfair for the OP who got spun out, but if he had given up the position then the crash would not have happened. One driver got 44 incident points (DQ) and the other 29 in that race so there was clearly a lot going on that we don´t see in this snippet. That´s why I don´t like trial by video unless all the evidence is presented.
@DeanRacing First of all we can and do penalise intentional wrecking. If your impression that "nothing gets done" comes from the fact that we don't inform users who report incidents about the outcome of our decision, all I can say is that we decided to not do that on purpose. We don't want to stigmatise anyone by public shaming. (Almost) everyone deserves a second chance. Regarding what qualifies as a punishable offence, we want to be as open, fair and least intrusive as we can. Over-policing won't do anyone any good and will only lead to players being driven away from the game. This is why we usually only ban users who are violating the general racing code of conduct very seriously, i.e. blatant intentional wrecking of any kind. The problem with smaller violations like the examples you showed, aggressive blocking or late braking, is that we have to be 100% sure that the offender did it with mal-intent. We won't penalise minor incidents because there's no way of telling with 100% certainty that the user did it on purpose. Especially in an online multiplayer environment there are too many variables which can have an effect on a users performance without him doing it deliberately. Maybe his hardware failed somehow, maybe he had a connection issue, maybe he simply wasn't aware of what was going to happen. Drivers who obviously struggle with their car or don't know the track most likely aren't worth reporting. While we all agree that those drivers should practice before entering (ranked) mp races, it would be over the top to punish them with a ban. However, if we receive evidence that a certain user drives in such a dodgy way repeatedly and with the intent to compromise other drivers' races, we can also take disciplinary measures, like a formal warning or a temporary ban. So if you encounter an opponent who obviously wants to ruin another drivers race, you are definitely welcome to report them. Even if that single incidence itself is not enough for a ban we might give out a warning and keep their name on our watch-list so if more people complain about the same user we then have a case for taking more severe actions. And as Vale already pointed out, whenever we do consider a ban we will always ask for the complete replay file so we can review the incident from all angles and also take every driver's overall conduct into consideration. The reason I'm not asking you to send that replay is because I think everything that can be said regarding the incident in the OP has been said in the previous responses. It is not a clear case of someone wrecking other players on purpose. It's not a clean move either and nobody who responded so far is trying to defend it or blame you, it's just not enough for us to deal out a ban. Hope this has made things a bit clearer. Christian
Thanks for your reply Christian G. There are two things I’d appreciate knowing. 1. Where should reports of bad behaviour be sent? 2. Shouldn’t there be a specific area on the forum for these sort of complaints because, at present, they’re scattered through individual threads. If they were all located in one place it would make it far easier to police.