Now those cars feel completely wrong From patch to patch it gets more worse. Sorry to say. Can fully admit what Joe says.
I fully confirm what Joe and FormelLMS say. The issue is definitely not solved and the cars feel much worse now. DRS is more effective now. But straight line speed is far too slow now, about 10kmh slower on a straight than before and also same amount slower than speed of the cars in real life. The main root cause is instead not fixed: In my view the changed in collision detection for the underbody (5mm). Due to this it was impossible to find a balanced compromise for DRS performance vs. car handling; thus DRS was reported as ineffective. Instead it seems that the aero drag was increased to make DRS a bit more effective. At the cost that cars are now horribly slow on top speed. PLEASE Don't tweak any further. PLEASE Simply revert back to EXACTLY the same behavior as prior to June patch. The cars have been almost perfect before.
The DRS was simply not working correctly before either - it should not be making you slower in a straight line. So tweaking is definitely necessary. Also, I may have spoken too soon - I was running 13 wing at Monza and DRS was still only gaining me 3-4KM/h, not really how it should be. In the 2015 cars it's in the region of 12-15.
I agree DRS was not working really good before. That was the only downside. However overall DRS still worked. If DRS didn't work prior to June update it was a setup question. Apart from that DTM2020 cars have been really a pleasure prior to June update. Things started to turn worse with the June update when something was changed with the underbody collision detection. But fixing DRS should not screw up straight line speed. The cars are by far too slow now on the straight. You can compare with tons of onbaord videos in real life. Since last hotfix it's definitely worse than everything before. Also, you should not expect that the DRS is working as effective in DTM2019/2020 compared to DTM2015-2016 before. The technical specs have changed in 2019 making DRS much less effective in the real cars too. This was the reason P2P was introduced in 2019 because DRS effect alone was too small...
RE: top speed discussions. It's taken me all of 10 minutes to make a setup which does 290kph at Monza, up from the starting speed of around 275. Could keep tweaking still and probably reach 295 but I think it already shows enough.
Thanks Alex. But we don't have any real life data from DTM20 in Monza. So we can't compare. Can we please stick to tracks where we can compare with the real life? There are tons of onboards or press articles showing how fast a DTM20 is in real life. You can compare wherever you want -- the cars are currently too slow on the straight. Example in SPA, uphill the Kemmel straight. The real cars reach about 285 without slipstream. With slipstream about 295 up to >300. Since the last update this is impossible. Or please show me a well balanced setup which can go this speed (AND is still good for a fast laptime). You know better than anybody, that finding a good setup is all about compromise. The challenge with DRS is that when it's open the rear is getting unloaded. Which increases rake and drag. The task is not to tweak a setup like hell that it goes above speeds but is nuts in cornering. It still must show good cornering performance.
If it is a matter of Setup, can you make the same Exercice for SPA and schow us 295 End of the Kemmel Straight,
Up to 283.67kph from a starting speed of 273kph with about 20 minutes of tweaking: I could keep going and find another few kph. Shows that if you build a proper low drag setup it will happen. Add a good slipstream on top of this and you'll be cracking 295, absolutely positive of it.
So Alex, please share this setup, that we can see how it works at the complete lap. Yes, I can tune up this cars to get this speed. But then it's only for dragster races. Not possible to get a good cornering. Only straights please.
I posted the speed trace so you can compare to your own laps. Note that there's no lift at Radillon and that's a big indication of it's stability. I have to go and ruin some other cars now
I don't want to have a fight here. If you slow down something fast, it's always annoying. In any case, I have found out from some DTM onboards (Spa, Hockenheim, Lausitzring and Nürbrugring) that the speeds in aerodynamically shaped curves are about 15-20 km/h higher in the game. That would also explain the time difference. Maybe you can start there. I can also feed the beta testers with data.
Setup setup setup, it's all down to that. Default is high downforce/high drag. The series' chief engineer fed me more data on the cars than probably anybody else outside the series has. No need to speculate as all the hard numbers are already in my possession. DRS didn't work properly before because I couldn't figure out how to do it. Now it's all in order.
Alex, don't get me wrong. I love Raceroom. Even more since the great FFB update. And I love the DTM20's. I appreciate all your hard work and you're doing a lot of stuff perfectly right. Yeah, I know, it's all about setup. I did nearly 10000 laps on them. I know these cars in and out. I also can confirm that DTM'20 looks correct on Hockenheim now (checked yesterday night). Top speed as well as cornering speed. But still, SPA looks not correct to me, if you see that Kubica could easily reach 284 (without slipstream) even with lifting off in Eau-Rouge quite a lot (in the previous laps he stayed almost flat even in dirty air of F.Scherer). I could also reach up to 281/282 but only with extreme low drag/low downforce optimized for DRS speed. For me this setup makes no sense as it is too slow on the overall lap. Would be keen to know your dynamic rake and ride height.
Don´t care much for these cars but I do think that RRE could allow for a normal and aggressive setup like ACC. This is good for qualifying and short races where tyre wear and comfort are less important. It would also help meatheads like me figure you what t play with in some car classes to get better results. Sometimes there is no correlation between accepted wisdom and game settings (physics exploits) or for some cars a particular setting has more effect.
I am still sorry to say that there are serious problems with the new Physics. I had done the following test on the Nordschleife: 75 mm height at the front and 90mm at the rear. Suspension : completely unrealistically hard for this circuit. Yet these cars react so much on uphill passages. Especially after descents. Why is that? I suddenly lose 10-15 kmh in the Fuchsröhre without the car touching the asphalt. GT3s, for example, don't have this problem. A colleague had these bizarre experiences where the GT3s drove into his rear or he was overtaken again. That absolutely kills the fun. The cars also lose so much top speed in a stint. And you can't make the cars that high, because then you just lose too much time. In Onboards you don't see any loss of speed. But the problem is not new. You could even somehow come to terms with it. But now that the cars are much more sensitive to everything, it's more noticeable. Bumpers would be help. This is not about being right. You gave us great DTMs last year. In my opinion, the DTMs before the December update were the best. Except for that throttle bug. But now there's just something wrong with the general physics. You can now compare the new Class 1s from RF2 with this: These have also received data from BMW and someone must be wrong now. End of the Fuchsröhre in RF2: 285kmh. R3E: 260 kmh or less with a drivable setup. 25 kmh difference is huge.The next corner are extremely exciting with 285kmh. With 260 kmh totally boring. And the funny thing is that it was exactly like that before the FFB update. I came there with more than 280 kmh. So either the physics was broken before or it is now. I mean now. And I am not alone