Of course it isn't bad to have both, like it is now in the Rating Beta, but in the end, as a community server admin, I really want this minimal reputation setting for the Dedi Server. For me it's totally equal how much performance a player have, as long as he is driving safe. Example: we had a Community race last year with FR US at Mid Ohio, in the end the slowest guy won, because every other driver destroyed the car or left the server because of one spin.
Guys, you are making way too much out of this. It's only a beta test for collecting ranking data - nothing else. Of course you still meet people with little respect for other drivers, plain wreckers or noobs. Nothing prevents them from joining the servers. What is being tested here is only one part of the system that's in development right now. It will only show what it's capable of a short period of time after it's gone live alltogether with matchmaking and everything. Well, you can't blame anybody for the stupidity of drivers, apart from the drivers themselves...
No offense taken. I just figured it wouldn't be much of a discussion if you thought I was SP only. As for the ELO rating, while it is used for multiple purposes (point distribution as you mentioned for one), it is also used for seeding players in tournaments. You know, so people don't run into someone far better than themselves in the first round. It serves a similar purpose in iRacing, and would presumably do the same with R3E. Yes, it would mean bunched racing. But that does not necessarily mean crashy, quite the opposite. Roughly the same pace means fewer accidents, since there are smaller speed differences and far fewer unexpected maneuvers. Furthermore, if the ratings are roughly the same, there are far fewer points at stake and thus less incentive to take risks. This might not apply in the top ranks since they are insanely competitive, but for us mere mortals it works fine. Besides, bunched racing is what we want, isn't it? If you're constantly outpacing or being outpaced, who are you going to race against? But I think we're talking about two different things here. You're talking about using a safety-rating to possibly block crashers on dedi servers. Which is fine if you want to run your own server. I'm talking about using the ratings to split the field on ranked public servers. In which case some sort of performance rating becomes necessary, safety not withstanding.
I think all they need is something simple and automated with little maintenance. Not necessarily just like Sim Racing Systems, but something along those lines. People are often gung ho when discussing these topics, but in the end keeping the servers full with people participating is the hard part.
The biggest problem for all racing sims, but also for driving games, are crasher, equal if they do it because they are a**h***s or there have not enough skill or experience. This repu-system is the solution of this problem. Let us set a min. Reputation for the Dedi instead of a password. A password keeps everyone out except of the few people how know the password, a repu-system keeps only the crashers out. And you are flexible enough to raise or lower the repu, depending on the class you set on the server. (faster class higher repum, slower/easy to drive class lower repu)
At this moment this system is still on beta... because we are only collecting data from users and races. Maybe in the near future you will have no password rated servers who only will be rated users above x.
I know its beta, and we will se where it leads. It's just my thinking how this system can be used with the dedi in the future. I'm a fan of an "open as possible server-joining". I use passwords, very rarely on our servers. Because like I said, it keeps to many drivers out.
Yes I am looking at it from a server admin perspective correct, I can see both sides now why it would be useful, it would be great to be allowed to run just safety or performance or both for matchmaking. We will see what comes from the testing but I am hopeful ;-)
So cut rules are not working on the ranked servers (for gt4 and nsutt for certain). The leader had just 2 laps that weren’t red of 14. I’ve also been passed and watched people pass completely on the outside of the track without Consequence - Red Bull people are going so wide on the last turn on both entry and exit that they will catch anyone obeying the rules. Imola does enforce a time penalty. So it’s track dependent. Red Bull appears to be liberal enough to let you pass outside the track on several turns. Bit of a bummer.
The server says - cut penalty = “slow down” you’d think/hope after more than 14 off track Incursions/incidents and passing off track it would throw up the slow down for X seconds. It does not on Red Bull, It does on Imola for example.
Anyway to enable penalty for if ignoring blue flags? Last leading an NSU race in Brands and start to overlap the guy in front of me starts to fight the hell out of his car. So the second driver overtake me and now he has to fight against this strange guy. They collided, driving to the lawn and he is getting a drive through. Instantly the lapped car starts to fight against me. My own weapon was to tip him against his back slightly while he was moving sidewards so he goes spinning. Got some penalty points for this and really dislike those behavior. I thought, it could get clean races there.
Again: these servers are only beta tests for data collection. There is nothing in place to stop idiots from joining. A lot of the people on these servers are surely not even aware of this, don't read the MOTD and as a consequence don't even care for their data. Some people might even abuse the additional care taken by others to block as badly as they possibly can. You will not get cleaner races until the whole system will be in place where server admins can (hopefully) configure a minimum safety rating for people to join their servers. Until then it might still be a bit better on the ranked servers due to a good amount of players joining just because of the ranking beta test. But as long as the servers aren't protected in any way, every average Wrecker-Joe will find them nicely populated high up in the server list... ;-) Having said that, I'd like to propose to make them password protected again. While the password needs to be published in some way, which means it can potentially be seen by wreckers too, it surely is a bit of a barrier for the average wrecker who might even filter his sever list for unprotected servers. Dunno...on the other hand it might stop quite a lot of good people from joining too. I'd like to give some feedback too...I've been doing a few races yesterday on the GT4 server and this is what I think: There doesn't seem to be any cut track penalties in place. And not every offtrack results in an incident. I guess only offtracks that would normally lead to a penalty produce an incident. I saw a few players cutting and going wide all over the place without any penalty. I also made some mistakes that I think should have been penalized. Is the new take on this that there won't be any penalties anymore, only incident points? Because I think this is not good. While these players collect a lot of incidents, they still win races this way which wouldn't happen if they were also penalized in the first place. Another point is that I think that offtracks should not generate incidents during non-race-sessions. When an offtrack is detected the lap gets invalidated anyway so there is no harm done in a non-race-session. On the other hand I think that in race sessions every offtrack should generate an incident, no matter if it gets penalized or not. And I'm really only talking about offtracks here. Car-to-car-collisions should of course always produce incidents. What do you guys think?
Amen, I literally won't play the NSU series now because all of the top drivers use off track tactics to either pass or get a run into the straights.. Literally every lap.. I've noted this above on this thread.. Red Bull is so bad you can look and see the top 3 finishers rarely have a single green lap.. Regardless, its like having no stewards.. I also agree that in qualifying or practice having incidents for off track seems excessive and maybe counter productive. Iracing does this as well, it makes no sense relative to motorsports.. Qualifying should be on the edge and the penalty for going too far shouldn't be removed safety, just a non counted lap.. This excludes contact of course. AND should also have blue flag penalties or incident points. Speaking of blue flags.. How about after 5 seconds of getting a blue flag from a single driver behind you - it starts giving you a incident every other second until you get out of the way, and a black flag after 8 seconds. This way when eventually you have a maximum incidents before being kicked you will just get ejected and the front runners will become less affected by this utter nonsense. 5 seconds seems plenty chance as you can assume you are coming up from a distance. Regardless, some sort of penalty for not obeying the blue flag seems necessary. I've seen several races where people don't care, or are asshats or don't know what a blue flag is and ruin a race for the top 3 in the ranked servers.
5 seconds seems way too short for me (comparing with real life as well as practicality). Assuming youre driving same class cars the lapped guy would have to jump onto the brakes as soon as he sees the blue flag
blue flags , whos rule set , not every series is f1 , some series you can fight to stay on the lead lap , i understand blue flags in multiclass as a warning for a faster class coming through Andi
While I agree that desperate blocking under blue flag can be an issue, I also think that solving this issue by force will lead to other problems. For example not only very slow backmarkers are being lapped. Sometimes it can also be an unlucky, otherwise quite fast driver, who had some kind of incident that threw him far back. Getting close to such a driver after he got his first blue flag might already take quite some time before the gap is close enough to let someone else pass. It would be very hard to fix a general, always fit amout of time, the pass has to be done before somebody gets penalized. Another case would be unlapping after having had some incident that threw you back. How do want to unlap yourself against other drivers on a similar pace when you get a blue flag with a black flag 5 seconds after you made the pass? Doesn't really work that well. It's always hard to automatically regulate on track behaviour in a racing sim - very often too many factors are involved. In a first person shooter a teamkill is a clear cut incident, like it is driving in the wrong direction in a racing sim. But what about a collision? Whos fault is it in a racing situation? We're not in public traffic where the following car always is to blame as it has to maintain a safe distance. We are racing very closely and who is to say if the driver in front slammed the brakes too early to provoke an accident or if the driver behind just braked too late?
Having done several races recently, mainly on the NSU server I can't agree with ndwthx1138 about all the top drivers not respecting the track limits. I have regularly run in the top 6 & most drivers at the front are pretty good at staying on track. However Red Bull Ring is one of the worst tracks for encouraging drivers to take liberties & Brands Indy seems to allow quite extensive off track driving without any warnings at all. Having driven GT Legends for many years, maybe a system like that has should be implemented, three cut track warnings incurs a stop/go penalty, ignoring it receives a DQ. Agree that cut tracks in qualifying should not get an incident report as the lap is voided anyway.
One additional point... I don't know who exactly from S3 runs/configures the ranked servers. But due to the fact that you, @J-F Chardon, usually made the announcements on Discord, I tagged you to draw your attention... One of the servers is set up to do 1 hour races on the Nordschleife 24h layout with GT3 and GT4 mixed fields. And while this is a very nice idea and I had a really cool race there with the new Cayman, you should set the time after finish to something like 10 minutes. It is set to 2 minutes and after 1 hour the GT3s were so far ahead, there was just no way I could have reached the s/f line before the 2 minutes were up. It's a bit sad when you have a nice race and can't even cross the line at the end...