FFB Guide

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sector3, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Master_of_the_house

    Master_of_the_house New Member

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    It should be 1:1 for all cars. The ffb settings will do the rest.

    Some people told me for example that the RauF feels too light on multiplier 1. I had the chance to drive one on a track and a few race cars too. Those light weight Porsche are very light on the steering wheel.
     
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  2. RWB Charger

    RWB Charger Well-Known Member

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    Not in my experience and my clubs, FFB per car is subjective and down to the person who is driving, no way I could run on 1 on some cars I would hardly feel the FFB
    It was well known in the earlier days of the T500 bursting into flames and the T300 overheating and cutting FFB that Thrustmaster themselves recommended 60-70% as being their 100% setting, even shows it in their support page.

    https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/kb/107-en/
     
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  3. Rmbonk86

    Rmbonk86 Member

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    These are the current settings i have. I will try ones that were suggested.
     

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  4. Rmbonk86

    Rmbonk86 Member

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    Had some time later to try the settings. My settings were close to both of your settings ( Rwb charger and master of the house). The big thing I did notice is that I had smoothing and min force at a value of 20. I kept raising that cause it would simulate a stronger reaction from the wheel when going over bumps or curbing. I guess I was trying to replicate what I feel when I drive my car ( Jeep). When I hit bumps or pot holes my wheel IRL will jolt from the impact. Obviously race tracks are not like destroyed public roads lol , but I’ve never had the opportunity to drive a track in cars like these so I have no way of knowing what it feels like to aim for to achieve the feeling I’m trying to get from the wheel

    But maybe I’m not getting all that detail just due to the fact that it’s not as strong as the higher performance wheels

    Does anyone use a specific car only for dialing in their settings? Last night I was using the RUF Gt2

    Also , using 1 for the multiplier is very weak, I had to raise it to 2.7 for the RUF.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  5. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    Beta tester @Thomas Jansen spent the weekend fettling his FFB.
    Hopefully he will share his findings here!
     
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  6. Hervé45

    Hervé45 Well-Known Member

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    With a direct Drive ?
     
  7. Karting06

    Karting06 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    He doesn't have one.
    Maybe you can sponsor him? ^^
     
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  8. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Member

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    It's unfortunate that all studios don't have access to DD-wheels for fine tuning and profile development. Even having access to the AccuForce preset can benefit the OSW wheels in taming some of the harsh effects.

    What Reiza (Niels) has accomplished with Automobilista FFB is really amazing to me. I can't think of another title that conveys the subtle effects so well; even track-surface variations (concrete vs tarmac) can be felt and the overall steering behavior feels as natural as can be in Sim-racing (imo). How much comes from physics vs FFB - I don't know but, they have things dialed in and in the all right ways as far as I'm concerned (at least with the DD).

    @Alex Hodgkinson , I say that with no slight what-so-ever intended toward you. RaceRoom has improved so much since you have arrived so please, keep up the good work. :)
     
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  9. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    Thank you, kind words.

    I'm really interested in looking into improving DD-wheel behaviour and so I'm starting to look at market options with a view to building a test rig.
     
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  10. G.Deurwaerder

    G.Deurwaerder Well-Known Member

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    otherwise I would sell my system, but it is already 4 years old and works under Mmos 2014, it is still a bit early for the new version of simuCube as they are still in update version of a beta;);)
     
  11. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Member

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    SimuCube firmware is still getting some minor updates but, it's pretty mature and quite stable in it's current state. The next thing to be added is a safety-related feature and there is some chance that they may add another filter or two but, nothing major from the GD posts I've seen.
     
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  12. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    You wont want to do any work ;)
    It makes sense in a pretentious elitist way, there is no question they need preference over all the other none DD inferior wheels out there :eek:o_O:D:p
    Im only half an hour away, i can set up your rig while you get started on my car o_O
     
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  13. morpwr

    morpwr Member

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    Theres no going back after a DD.
     
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  14. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    Well it depends, what's your car? :D

    Half an hour.. so, where are you based at?
     
  15. Karting06

    Karting06 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    According to @Rodent, it would be around the Belgian coast!
     
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  16. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    350z in the fasssstesssst colour ;) [​IMG]
    Based at, lol, i live in Coventry :)
     
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  17. Neil Bateman

    Neil Bateman Well-Known Member

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    This would be interesting to try out, i am currently using a slightly modified version of his previously posted settings which are already really good.
     
  18. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

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    Thanks for the pressure :D

    After testing a lot of different settings, I actually did not end up far from my original settings, though the resulting feeling is definitely very different. The most important change is in the understeer effect, which I lowered signifcantly. I believe this setting might be the cause of FFB problems for a lot of people, as having it too high can create a 'notch' in the middle of the wheel rotation. Furthermore, it makes cars feel almost 'weightless' and floaty when balancing a car on the limit. I simply got very used to this feeling and never questioned it until I watched a bunch of onboards and tried to recreate those In the real onboards the cars just looked to feel 'heavier', where I could just throw them around, similar to how you can do if you did not have any FFB. Another negative consequence of the understeer effect is that a sudden countersteering moment could cause the car to be flung off the track in the opposite direction of the original oversteer. I thought this was just my mistake, but my new FFB fixed it almost completely, as with a high understeer effect the FFB is very light outside of a certain range around the middle. This means that when starting to countersteer, you have to apply a decent force to go through the middle where the FFB is quite strong, or in most cases, the FFB will even accelerate the wheel as the car wants to self-align. But then you suddenly hit the drop-off point of the FFB when the understeer effect kicks in. This means there is suddenly almost no force decelerating the wheel to stop at the right angle, which makes you and the self-aligning action massively overshoot, resulting in a very weird spin in the wrong direction.

    The other setting that I changed is the following setting 'hidden' in the .rcs controller profile, you can easily find it by searching for 'balance' in the .rcs file (which is in the 'documents>simbin>raceroom...>userdata>controlset' directory).:
    FFB steer force balance mode="0" // Mode for how to add the steering forces together (lateral, load and diff). Acceptable values: 0 = lat + load + diff, 1 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2 + diff^2), 2 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2) + diff, 3 = sqrt(lat^2 + (load + diff)^2), 4 = sqrt((lat + load)^2 + diff^2)
    This setting controls how the different forces attributing to the FFB are summed up, as far as we know, the default setting for Logitech and Thrustmaster is "0", while the default for my Fanatec V2.5 was actually "2".We are actually not even sure what the 'diff' part is atm. I found option 0, 2 and 3 to feel quite good, on 1 and 4 I lost all feeling for oversteer, so I binned those immediately. There were only subtle differences between the other 3, but "0" seemed to give a nice feeling of bumps in the road, which I have heard many people asking for in FFB, though I should mention this really depends on the car (more in open wheelers, less in GT for example, which should also reflect reality). So in the end I chose to stick to option 0, as this seemed to be the default for most wheels and, in my opinion, a simple linear summation makes the most sense without any specific reason to choose otherwise.

    I did also try the steering rack option, while it feels okay on some cars, it can make the FFB a bit wonky when the front wheels are driven as well, either FWD or 4WD. On top of that, it gave a really weird notchy effect, making my V2.5 feel like a gear-driven wheel, and not a good one at that. So definitely a no-go for me, but may be different for other wheels.

    Both the lower understeer effect and the different balance mode increased the forces significantly, so while I kept the intensities the same, I lowered the per car multiplier by 1.5-2x depending on the car (I was usually around default).

    So my new settings are still mostly the same (with the 'DRI' setting on my V2.5 at -2 and balance mode "0" in the .rcs file):

    Force Feedback Intensity: 100%
    Smoothing: 0%
    Force Feedback Spring: 0%
    Force Feedback Damper: 0%

    Steering Force Intensity: 50%
    Force Feedback Minimum Force: 0%
    Understeer: 20%
    Vertical Load: 50%
    Lateral Force: 50%
    Steering Rack: 0%

    Slip Effect: 0%
    Engine Vibrations: 0%
    Kerb Vibrations: 20%
    Shift Effect: 20%
    Collision Effect: 20%

    It should work for any other wheel too, as I said in my previous post, for weaker wheels you probably want to increase the steering force intensity, the minimum force options and the various effects, just make sure to avoid clipping during normal cornering.

    I hope others like these changes too, for me it has stopped my from overdriving cars very easily and it has also completely transformed some cars that I previously did not like at all. One thing I do have to add is that because overdriving is now harder, having an understeery setup feels quite horrible, which can be a good tool for setup tweaking, though it might be a disadvantage on some cars. Feel free to suggest any changes and make sure to check out some of the hidden options in the .rcs file, as there are plenty there that are not controlled by the menu options.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  19. Not Lifting Off

    Not Lifting Off Well-Known Member

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    Add a little smoothing should cure that- 20%ish, maybe a little more maybe less.
    While we are here can you suggest to remove FFB effects or at least G shift effects while sat on the grid, strange going thru the gears watching my wheel wobble :)
     
  20. Rmbonk86

    Rmbonk86 Member

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    I’ve been waiting for this reply :),I like these. Only thing I want to try to do it make the wheel feel a bit heavier without making it start to clip. When i get clipping it doesn’t flat line constantly maybe like a 1 second flat clip. Other than that just a hair above the red line. What I have increased is the vertical and lateral to 60, Rack 50, steering intensity 100( I couldn’t go with 50 with this wheel it’s just not powerful enough.. maybe if increased in the profile on desktop). But over all I like these