FFB Guide

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sector3, Jan 22, 2015.

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  1. boban666

    boban666 New Member

    Jan 29, 2015
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Maybe somebody have already a good ffb settings for old G25/27 after yesterday update ?
  2. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

    Apr 5, 2018
    +379 / 0 / -0
    So with this new update FFB has changed quite a bit, which is why we revamped all the default controller profiles. Ofcourse FFB is highly subjective, so some people might prefer a slightly different mix and different wheels might require some tinkering in terms of overall strength. We can only test on the few wheels we have (Fanatec CSW V2.5 for me), so here are some tips on how to get the most out of your wheel:

    1. Go to the default controller profile for your wheel (you will have to re-bind your buttons)
    2. Make sure you are using normal settings in your wheel driver. Keep damper and spring etc. on in the wheel driver, as this only means it uses the damping forces that come from the game, it does not add damping by itself. Forcing these off can break some of the effects, such as the new stationary friction, as that is mostly damping forces.
    3. To dial in the overall FFB strength, I would advise driving one of the modern GT3 cars, the GT3R 2019 for example. These cars are the most recent and have the most representative default FFB multiplier (make sure you reset this FFB multiplier to default in the setup menu of the car). Toggle the FFB graph on (you have to keybind a button to it), so you can see if the FFB is very low or clipping at any point. Drive on a track with lots of curbs and bumps, I would recommend Nords or Bathurst. To adjust the FFB strength I would advise to only change the 'Steering Force Intensity' for now. On weaker wheels you probably want to aim for about 80% sustained force in corners, this gives you close to the maximum detail, but still leaves some room for bumps etc. before it starts clipping. On stronger wheels you should simply dial the Steering Force Intensity in to a point that you feel is a comfortable strength, which is pretty subjective anyway.
    4. Now your FFB should be nicely set up for pretty much all cars in the game, but there will always be some outliers, which you can tune individually with the FFB multiplier in the car setup menu when needed.
    5. If you're still not happy with the feeling, I'd suggest to first give it a bit more time, to see if it is just a matter of getting used to it. This is usually the key with FFB, as going to new settings is a bit like learning a new language, you have to learn what the FFB does for certain situations in the car and you will adapt to it over time.
    6. It might still be that some of the settings do not translate over to some wheels well, so I will explain some of the settings we used and what my recommendations are:
    Force Feedback Damper
    Damping is usually quite a controversial topic in simracing, though it definitely shouldn't be. Quite often people will say it gets rid of details, but that is only really the case with too much damping. There will always be some damping present on a real car, because of the inherent damping of the components, the gyroscopic effect of the wheels and in many cases the power steering, so having some damping is definitely realistic. I would argue that it also makes the FFB more precise, however, contrary to what many will believe. The reason for this is that having a very underdamped wheel will tend to 'overshoot' in quick corrections. Say you are turning with the wheel 45 degrees to the right, then you get a snap of oversteer for which the correct amount of countersteer would be turning the wheel 45 degrees the other way. Both you and the FFB will start acceleration the wheel to that point, with very little resistance because there is basically no damping, so the rotation will be very quick. By the time you reach the correct countersteer angle, the FFB will start pulling you back again, but at this point it's already too late as the wheel is still moving fast, so you will overshoot the correct angle and countersteer too much. This is how you end up in the opposite wall after a snap of oversteer! Ofcourse you can simply learn to correct this yourself by slowing down the wheel in time. However, by adding some damping, the FFB is much more controlled and you will be able to do this based on feeling much more easily, rather than relying on memorizing how much countersteer you need exactly. Another added bonus is that your wheel is much less likely to go out of control when letting go on a straight for example, which tends to happen simply because of the way the wheel is disconnected from the car by processing delays. The difficulty with this setting comes with the differences between wheels, some wheels have quite a lot of inherent damping, or even have settings to control this damping. (such as most Fanatec wheels, with the DRI setting, which I keep at -1 to keep the damping forces mostly controlled by the game).

    Force Feedback Minimum Force
    This setting should not be necessary for most mid-high end wheels, from Fanatec and Thrustmaster etc. It is mostly meant for the weaker wheels such as the Logitech wheels, which can't output the small, subtle forces. Essentially it amplifies any forces below this setting's % to that higher %. So you can give this a try if you feel like your wheel is not outputting forces when it should be.

    A bit of a misleading name, because this effect is not only to indicate understeer, but more so to indicate where the peak slip angle is while turning. Turning this setting up will make the steering go lighter as you approach the peak slip angle and even lighter as you go beyond it (understeer). I've seen many different preferences here, the defaults should have 10% on, which makes it quite a subtle effect. This works nicely on the newer physics, but it might be a bit too low on older physics, mainly due to the tire physics differences.

    Vertical Load and Lateral Force
    With these two settings it's mostly about the ratio between them. They determine how much influence the vertical force on the tires and the lateral forces on the tires have on the FFB. Having more vertical load will make the feeling of weight transfer, curbs and bumps more pronounced, while more lateral force will stick more to the normal cornering behaviour. A downside of adding too much vertical load is that the wheel tends to oscillate quite heavily on straights, as it ends up in a positive feedback loop where the FFB reacts to the weight transfer, throwing the wheel and therefore the car and weight the other way repeatedly. This can cause the wheel to throw you off the track quite quickly when you let go on a straight.

    Steering Rack
    The steering rack setting is a bit of a mysterious one, it is very dependent on the car you drive, what kind of effect it has. On the newer physics, it will have the intended effect of making the FFB feel more as if it is really coming through the steering geometry, rather than directly from the tires, often making the steering go a bit lighter when turning more. However, it has some very odd effects with FWD and AWD cars on high % settings. This is why we decided to keep it at 30%, to get most of the benefits, but without the negatives. I would not recommend going over 50% with this to avoid those side-effects.

    Other effects
    The various effects are mostly preference based. I would personally avoid the slip effect, as it does not work well with the newer physics, resulting in lots of random vibrations at any time. The curb effect is nice to give the older track models without the 3D curbs the same feeling, will depend on the wheel how much is needed. The shift effect is also very subjective, I find that you can actually feel the shifts already in the FFB with the new pneumatic trail, but some might like it to be a bit more aggressive, so this effect is there if you want it.

    For reference, these are the settings I use on my Fanatec CSW V2.5 and most defaults should be based on this, with some variation per wheel. If your default profile is vastly different from this it might be a bug so let us know:

    Force Feedback Intensity: 100%
    Smoothing: 0%
    Force Feedback Spring: 0%
    Force Feedback Damper: 30%

    Steering Force Intensity: 60%
    Force Feedback Minimum Force: 0%
    Understeer: 10%
    Vertical Load: 50%
    Lateral Force: 50%
    Steering Rack: 30%

    Slip Effect: 0%
    Engine Vibrations: 0%
    Kerb Vibrations: 20%
    Shift Effect: 0%
    Collision Effect: 0%

    As I've said before, FFB is highly subjective and very dependent on what you are used to, so there are no 'correct' settings. Feel free to post what worked for you!
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  3. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

    Apr 5, 2018
    +379 / 0 / -0
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  4. Rmbonk86

    Rmbonk86 Member

    Feb 1, 2019
    +22 / 0 / -0
    I run with the TM-TMX. I feel the new Physics from default is a really good starting point. Couple things i have changed was adding some smoothing and lowering the minimum force to 8 or 9. I was getting a really bad shake in the straights. Once i lowered that it went away. However if i bump the wheel while in a straight it will start to do it again untill i grip the wheel again.

    Im also trying to get more feeling out of the wheel in the sense of road bumps and curbs. Not the small flat rumble strip kind but the type that are more like in this image. When I drive over them would expect the wheel to counter steer on me from the impact of the initial contact and then straighten out. I would assume that would be more min force? I know the TMX isnt the strongest wheel I think it only has 12 bits data resolution, where the TX has 16 so i assume more bits means more information to the user so i try to keep that in mind.

    let know what you guys suggest in raising or lowering. Every car I use I go out on track and see where the FFB

  5. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

    Apr 5, 2018
    +379 / 0 / -0
    If you haven't already, I would suggest checking the new FFB thread :) https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/ffb-guide-december-2019.14067/ , by the sounds of it you might want to add some damping and maybe increase the vertical load setting a bit.
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