Fixed vs Adaptive AI

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stlutz, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

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    @everyone posting here:
    How long are your races? I currently do 15 mins and after about 3-5 laps (so about 5-8 minutes) when the most battles are over, I start losing ground.
     
  2. ducman888

    ducman888 Well-Known Member

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    I find the adaptive AI is more work than I care to invest in, either using spreadsheets or with mini races. I use the manual AI percentage gradually increasing the AI difficulty as my skill develops and with improving results. Winning is great, but equally rewarding for me is just being able to race the AI.
    What I also like about this is jumping from series to series I can see what types of cars fit my driving, or perhaps my driving fits the car by how well I am competing with the AI rather than them adjusting to me, I need to 'get better'.
     
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  3. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

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    But isn't that exactly what the AAI should cover? Especially when AAI adapts to you running mid pack so that you have action packed racing. And I mean battling with AI is normally much fun as they drive like good opponents that attack and defend quite good and leave you room.
     
  4. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the AAI. At all. It’s excellent - the way it works just doesn’t suit me, which is fine.

    As I said above I like to adjust the AI level so that I have close racing (with the best AI in sim racing!) a bit nearer the front with a half-chance of getting a win.
     
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  5. Muzarati

    Muzarati Member

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    I think someone already suggested it but maybe a strength slider so you can adjust the AAI e.g 1 = players top time and then increase it to be further back in the pack?
     
  6. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    AAI adapts even if you use fixed levels, if you are increasing the difficulty manually and running a decent number of races then you AAI file is likely to be very well developed by now.
     
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  7. Muzarati

    Muzarati Member

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    How does that work? o_O
     
  8. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    because your laptimes are recorded along with the AI laptimes for the used AI level. So if you are in the right ballpark with your chosen AI level then you have collected lots of good data for the adaptation file. Every time you do a singleplayer race data is written to the AAI file.
     
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  9. P. Smorzalo

    P. Smorzalo New Member

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    Race 07 had this and it was amazing... you just had to open the file in documents with notepad... but now is encrypted, so so bad

    I'm doing my championships race by race and calculating points on my phone, only solution
     
  10. Muzarati

    Muzarati Member

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    so can you shed some light on the big disparity between player and AAI lap times?
     
  11. ducman888

    ducman888 Well-Known Member

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    And this applies across the different cars? For example I primarily race GT3 and P2 cars, if I get into WTCR for example will the difficulty of the AI be similar based on my competitiveness in the other type of cars?
     
  12. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

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    Yes its been suggested in this thread and I suggested it myself a year or two back.

    There was a detailed explanation of why that couldn't work which I must admit I didn't understand at the time but I accept that the person giving the explanation knew a lot more about it that me.

    So my understanding is that with the current system it has to be what it is. I would be delighted to be told I'm wrong about that. :D
     
  13. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

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    If you switch class, then the AAI does not start at 80%, so AAI takes data from you AAI file from other class. How this is done, is black magic.... But that is one of my points above. P2 is much harder to drive, so I assume my fixed AI Level to Run competitive at P2 would be much lower than wtcr, which is quite easy to drive and easier to drive constantly. Before the ffb Update I had fixed AI at wtcr at 101% to run top 5. At WTCC (very similar Cars, just a bit faster) I drove at 109% to Run top5. So Something is wrong there, maybe with AI drivers Files. But such a big difference makes AAI calculation "difficult".
     
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  14. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    It's supposed to look at other classes if there is no data for that class but in reality it only seems to work well if you have actual data for the class you want to run.
     
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  15. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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  16. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    Depends on the car. For GT4 or Touring cars I'll typically do 15-20 minutes. But for open wheel cars or other faster cars I prefer longer races--45-50 minutes with a mandatory pit stop.
     
  17. P. Smorzalo

    P. Smorzalo New Member

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    I'll give it a try!!
     
  18. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

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    I did a short test. FRJ with 5 laps per race, 10 opponents, Race 2 with reversed grid and 2 race-weekends, so in sum 4 races.
    At my last 15 minutes race (I described above) I was way slower than AI and was kind of a road block. I think my fastest lap times was a high 1:38, AI at low 1:36.
    Those 4 races looked like (AAI times and mine in comparance):
    R1: AAI 1:36,5-1:37,5 Me: 1:38.5 (I finished 7th still being a little road block)
    R2: AAI 1:37,5-1:38,5 Me: 1:38.3 (I finisjed 3rd, so losing one spot, no raod block anymore, I even could catch up to 1st and 2nd)
    R3: AAI 1:37.7-1:38.7 Me: 1:38.7 (I won from 6th) one AI spun and was dead last and had free road and did a 1:36.6
    R4: AAI 1:38.3 - 1:39.0 Me 1:38.6 (I won from 8th by 0.8 s)
    I got 20 quite clear laps across those 4 races (I mainly had lap times at the high 1:38 - low 1:39). So AAI adapted quite well backwards and make my lap times to be mid pack.
    It was fun.
    All in all AI a little bit too slow in packed racing.
     
  19. Hendrick

    Hendrick Well-Known Member

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    Well said, I noticed this. Had a cracking race with adaptive AI on a track I had fixed AI races on but then the next two races I hated. It just keeps making them faster & faster its pointless. Problem with adaptive AI is even if you find that sweet spot/balance in a car/track combo come next race its gone.
     
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  20. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    was that the next two races at the same track? or different tracks?