Depends on the car/class we're talking about. On cars like GTO's it's more of a balancing tool, whereas it has a bigger influence on the topspeed, braking and handling characteristics of GT3 or FR2 f.e.
Makes sense. There is no real value assigned to it, just clicks. So no idea what increment a click is doing....not that I would know if it had a real value, but one could see the start an end numbers and get a idea. I find a low wing helps me turn faster more than anything else. Gt2 gt3 Just seems odd to me.
As far as I know from many fast guys across all the different sims... Setting your wings low seems to be quite common. Sims as a whole seem to not do a wonderful job reproducing aerodynamic conditions and all that goes along with it. There just seems to be far too much to simulate to accurately reproduce real world characteristics, and as such, you can usually get away with crazy things in sims because of this. Such as this super low aero and super low spring rate "setup exploit." I tried a setup similar to this and was indeed faster. As Christian mentioned earlier, softer usually means faster. Although Im not sure on the reasoning for this in the physics engine. However, even if it was faster for me, it would take an iron will full of immense focus to maintain consistent lap times since that sort of setup is outrageously difficult to drive. Incredibly unstable with tons of oversteer at the slightest movement. Maybe useful for a fast qualy if you wanted to artificially inflate your race pace, but I wouldnt use this sort of setup in any race where I actually want to finish That said, I know the devs are constantly striving to make things more accurate, and they are always working to improve on aero and such.
That rear wing thing... I experienced a noticable difference lowering the wing a few clicks on the Audi R8. If someone can drive with no downforce, it's okay... He will be faster. But I find it weird to say there is no difference in the physics by doing so. Further, I tried to set up the 2015 DTM R5 the same way the 2013 R5 is by default. I created much oversteer but there was still a difference. Further, some possible values differ from car to car, so it is impossible to create exactly the same setup for any car. The 2015 R5 mentioned above does not allow me to use the same setup the 2013 uses...
Well, as I said, there are no signs that he or anybody else has been cheating in R3E, so on what basis (other than prejudice) would they deny him to take part? I won't comment on how I personally see this whole issue, but up until now it appears he hasn't done anything illegal in R3E and as long as there's no virtual FIA banning people from all online racing, each developer/publisher has to handle the things that happen under their hood. Well yeah, that's how it works. Front and rear aero can't be viewed independently, they both are part of a highly complex, dynamic system. Imagine a car with equally distributed downforce. This car will have certain cornering characteristics. If you decrease the rear downforce the rear will get "lighter", the front downforce will increase in relation to the back, which increases front grip and as a result the car will turn in better. So if you suffer from understeer in fast corners, decreasing the rear wing will help, as - relatively speaking - there'll be more downforce and hence more grip on the front end (and vice versa on the rear). If you suffer from oversteer in fast corners increasing the rear wing will help.
@Christian Göpfert could you make a setup guide for idiots. I kinda know the physics, but I suck at tuning cars x.x
I just have to laugh at the notion one setup works on all cars. Mostly because I use to do that. I had one default setup I'd run on all the cars. Then I realized that working on specific setups for each vehicle is way more beneficial. Not only is it faster, but you can tailor it to allow better driver control. I've found setting up the vehicle for control has helped tremendously in league racing with sustained consistent pace. My impression from the author is that he doesn't have much experience racing more skilled drivers in R3E. I would love for him to put his theory to the test in an ESR league race. A lot of variance in pace and different setups.
I'd love to, if I had the time. I know it might be hard to believe, but I do have a life outside testing and these forums. Agree, seems to me like he started the process of building a setup but then stopped after the first step cause he was too pleased with the results he got from setting everything to minimum. Might also be because he was trying it on a certain track, like Red Bull Ring maybe, where this kinda setup might work better. If he thinks it's the ultimate setup then he should go with it, but selling it like it was the ultimate hack, Idk, seems kinda childish to me.
eh, you dont have to rush it, a bit of work every day goes a long away, and you always seem to have times for silly posts as well but ya, people like to be crazy.
I actually thought about it... Just as I thought about making a game manual, which I think would also be welcomed by a certain number of users. And I actually started collecting certain info and putting it all together, but it is very time consuming when you want to cover all relevant topics but keep it on point and understandable, and maybe even a worthwhile, not boring read.
There is no doubt the author of that post is a good sim-racer. He is quite a quick fella and certainly knows what he is doing out there. I've raced him a few times in GSCE actually. Even if his reputation precedes him for starting shit with his blog, he is also quite a clean driver. Kinda opposite to how he acts elsewhere... odd really. Clean and respectful on the track, and a menace online. But, I guess arent we all? (actually no, not all of us lol) To the point about setups, he seems to think that there is one "mega setup" that works across all rFactor based sims. Quite an interesting theory. When you really break it all down and figure out the actual reasoning behind it. It actually makes some sense. Since not everything in the physics engine is 100% accurate to real life, it is impossible to replicate all of the incredibly minor differences that a small setup tweak can make. From the pros and cons of doing so, to how it actually feels while driving, to having an accurate impact like the real world. When you think of R3E, rF2, AC, or any other sim as a game, it makes much more sense how someone could come to the conclusion that 1 setup rules them all. A game can have faults. Physics may be slightly inaccurate. You can make crazy camber tweaks and exploit the game engine if it doesnt take into account how massive camber will kill your tire quickly. Or how running super low aero will provide terrible balance to the car, even if you are a bit faster on straights. There is a reason after all that race teams dont use the Monza "Rip your wings off" aero package anywhere else Now, it does seem that there are tweaks like slightly increasing camber, making the car softer, and lowering the aero a bit... that are universal for sims if you want to be faster. Irregardless of what impact that would have on a real car. Personally, I make lots of setup tweaks when driving. Usually, its just to make the car more controllable so I can put together more clean laps. This is basically my strategy because I dont want to end a race after 2 laps of pushing hard, followed by me binning it in the wall from some fluke accident. If you can deal with the very difficult handling that one of these setup exploits offers, then by all means. Some of the aliens do But to slag off an entire game because a blog post is ranting about his assumption that you can use a single setup for everything is a bit misguided.
Said it earlier, I think this does apply to all games/sims, just as much as it does to real life (racing) cars, theoretically. Running a real car with super soft suspension will give you better grip, simply because all 4 wheels won't ever lose contact to the road surface. But in real life racing there are certain drawbacks from going all soft and as you said those might not have as much of a negative impact in a simulation as they have irl. You never want your car to bottom out irl, in most sims this is less of a problem. Very negative camber as you said does kill the tyres more quickly, but in a leaderboard challenge where tyres don't wear down at all or in a short race that doesn't really matter. And in terms of realism, everybody should always bear in mind that in R3E minimum spring rate doesn't mean that the springs are non-existent, they are still there and depending on the class we're talking about they are still quite strong actually. DTM '15 BMW lowest possible spring rate is 90 N/mm, which means it takes a force of ~9 kg to compress the spring by 1 mm (90 kg per 1 cm, 450 kg per 5 cm, remember the weight of the car is distributed to all 4 wheels). And that is more than the springs on your average road car. Normal road cars (even quite sporty ones) usually have a spring rate of 50-60 N/mm, so those lowest DTM settings are still stiffer than what you experience in your own car (and remember those DTM cars are significantly lighter than our road cars).
Come on Christian, just finish the damned manual already Or maybe a wiki with a limit on who can edit it. There's a ton of knowledge out there that needs to be collected up in to a single resource. I might even contribute
I've read about that too, but if true, Tim is actually the one who has to live with that burden which has become a Nemesis for him. If you're young and super-ambitious (also strong narcism belongs to the youth as well - in a world that is separated into "winners and losers" whatever this nonsense shall mean ) you easily can come to the point to "bend" the rules a little to be successfull ("wtf everybody does it...so hell, why not ?", as corresponding inner dialogue)..and once done and detected, it sticks to you like dogshit on your shoes, no matter what. Specially if you're in public focus . Look at those celebrities, who have failed once but got clean from a certain point on : nevertheless they are confronted with that same old shit, once for the mere sensation of it (press/paparazzi needs to be fed) and another time just out of jealousy or social envy, or because some fans (-atics) are disappointed and start a (never ending) shitstorm....whatever. Gossip does as much harm as bad politics or bad economics do - it's a kinda venom that first remains undetected (because everyone does it at a point) but then you suddenly you have a mob at your doorstep ready to lynch you (literally and figuratively)...the more if you are successful (again).
The setup actually worked for me. It made me over a second faster at Red Bull Ring in the TT. But for every car is a stretch in the DTM 92 BMW I could not keep it on the track. Every corner the back wanted to spin out
you are right, Fairman. ppl will always love to see those in high position fall, out of envy, spite, jealousy, or any other petty reason. heinemann is an easy target. he's arguably the fastest in R3E. he has been accused of cheating before by many. and although i have never seen any evidence of this, the stigma will follow him for the rest of his life. if the allegations are true, no matter his reasons, i don't have sympathy for him tho. he brought this upon himself and must be held responsible. i admit, i would scream bloody murder if there was an indication of cheating. but there isn't. anybody can see him race, or challenge his ghost. you can tell he doesn't have a higher top speed, or extra grip. he just brakes deep, and pushes the limits of the track, consistently. and there has never been any indication of anybody cheating in R3E. so heinemann must get a free pass around here, despite his tarnished reputation.
i think most of the advantage of this setup is the low rear wing setting. in the dtm92 bmw, the wing is not adjustable, so there is minimal effect using this setup.