FR X-17 new car physics update

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lemmy, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

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    You can do it @Lemmy !
     
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  2. Speedo

    Speedo Member

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    Hi Alex,
    thanks for this!
    I never liked the TC in the old physics of X-17.
    Appreciate a lot that these cars are now without.
    I like animals which are a real challenge to drive.
     
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  3. sloppshaa

    sloppshaa Member

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    I just had a go in the car and it's dissappointing overall. I'm a sim F1 fanatic so was eagerly anticipating this.
    The car is definitely a large improvement over the old one, which had this really weird wide understeer window - This one is much more consistent in its physics at all speeds.
    However the car is just pretty boring to drive with no nuance to it. There's just too much grip.
    After about 3 laps at Suzuka i did a 1.28.5 with the default setup. Maybe after half hour of testing and setup tweaks i could knock 1-2 seconds off that, but i don't have the time.

    Needed a slightly taller 7th, maybe a less sketchy rear at low speeds so could soften the rear a bit, but really, the Default setup already is reasonable.
    But there's just no real challenge to driving it at all - not for anyone who is half decent at sim driving anyway.
    The higher the downforce/grip levels of the cars, the more the rear lateral traction loss FFB seems to get lost a bit - it's still there, so i could still make corrections through sector 1 in 5th/6th gear (lol at the speed through there), but the car still feels a bit sloppy overall.
    Just jump in AC with an RSS mod as a comparison, it requires far more delicate control, smoothness and tiny corrections to really get a good laptime.

    And i think the car is too little mechanical grip, so in the hairpin for example after sector 1, it feels incredibly sloppy. There's not much real feel of bite from the tyres.
    the F2 car is probably the best balance in the game at the moment, bit more challenging to drive at optimal laptime than the F1 is.
    F3 car is best overall, bit too slow for me, but produces good racing and allows other lesser skilled folk to have a good race in it, so...fair enough. Wish we had a permanent F2 series though.

    Basically what i'm saying is........the car just has way too much downforce to make it fun to play, and maybe not enough mechanical grip - which is ironically like how modern F1 is....so if that's what sector3 were going for, congrats! :D

    Couple of other minor points
    - what's with the gearbox? Shift times are like something from the 1989 Ferrari F1 car! Gear changes were a lot slicker when we got to the 00's onwards....
    - probably other things i've forgotten so can't have been important.

    (ps just skimmed through the comments above, lol @ the people complaining about no TC..........i didn't even notice. Only slight throttle control needed coming out slow speed corners, that's it. I guess i am using a DD wheel though which does half the work for you so its a lot easier for me)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
  4. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    It's interesting how people perceive the balance of mechanical/aero grip to be. The FRX-17 actually doesn't have a huge amount of downforce, around 15% more than the FR2. However the peak friction available at the tyres is a bigger jump than that, resulting in the softs being grippiest tyres we have in game.

    Yes the default setup isn't edgy or snappy at all, that is very deliberate to cater for a wide range of users. All the options you need to turn that around into a more pointy car are there in the garage menu.

    Gear change speeds vary depending on which gear you're in. When changing up in lower gears a greater rev drop is required otherwise a large torque spike is caused. Therefore the gearchange timing is slower in low gears and faster in high gears.
     
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  5. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    The car with the slowest gearbox I have tried is the 718 GT4 as the downshift protection seems really intrusive.

    Are the F1s meant to have a handbrake activated too? I noticed the 90´s F1 V12 has it - actually comes in quite handy to spin turn it
     
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  6. azaris

    azaris Active Member

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    Idk why sim racers as a rule hate downforce and want modern F1 cars to skate all over the place...
     
  7. sloppshaa

    sloppshaa Member

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    - the gearchanges are too slow, at all gears. Watch any onboard from any F1 from 1989 onwards........the FX17 in comparison are annoyingly slow, also, you can visibly see the speed drop about 5kph when you change. It's just wrong. It's as if the car has a sequential without an electronic actuator that you get in paddleshift cars. It's like a stick sequential.
    If that's how you want the car to be, fine...........

    - How much more downforce the FX17 has over the Fr2 is irrelevant. It is still too grippy for it to be an interesting car to drive, it's on rails. I'm well aware you can tweak setup to make the car pointy, i'm easily top 1% of simdrivers for laptimes. Probably 0.5%. As i explained in my post, the default setup is already pretty neutral, and optimal laptime won't be much quicker than what is achievable with the default. There's no point me making the car more edgy if it means you're losing laptime, what would be the point in that?

    i understand you're limited by the game engine/tyre model though, i think F1 type cars show the limitations of the engine much more.
     
  8. sloppshaa

    sloppshaa Member

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    no one is saying they want f1 cars to skate all over the place. You're just exagerrating to try and make a point in defense of the car. I'm trying to provide constructive criticism to make the car more interesting and enjoyable to drive.
     
  9. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    I am a much bigger limitation than the physics engine is, of that I have no doubt.

    I think you answered your own question regarding grip/downforce etc.

    Gear change timings are what they need to be in order to be smooth.
     
  10. GregoryLeo

    GregoryLeo Well-Known Member

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    You mean, take some time and learn how to drive the car!?!:flushed: OMG what a concept! :tonguewink:
    OOPs sorry couldn't help myself. I'll just show myself out:oops:
     
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  11. Plutarch-Petrarch

    Plutarch-Petrarch Member

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    I'm sure the time taken complaining about the default setup could have been spent tweaking it
     
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  12. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Who complained about the setup?
     
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  13. Plutarch-Petrarch

    Plutarch-Petrarch Member

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  14. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    This has been fixed in todays update. They also rearranged the textures, so soft = red, medium = yellow, and hard = white now. Although the soft tire looks a bit orange, it's probably the texture of the old hard tire... But that's better than nothing.
     
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