FYI: A warning on possible upcoming performance losses for Intel CPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Skybird, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. mr_belowski

    mr_belowski Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    wot you need is a

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  2. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Work on Kernel rewrites is being done since early November already - at least early Novembre. Intel must have known about this when they launched sales of the 8th generation chips in early Novembre.

    Pure gaming likely will not be too affected, if there is any effect at all. The more modern the CPU, the smaller the to be expected hit. 7th and 8th generaiton probnaly only will suffer losses in the low one digit range - and in according tasks being run.

    It is important to understand that the problem is a most important and dangerous one, it cannot be just ognored. It could compromise VM to VM communication, read out data from VMs, could compromise cloud computing. This is really an absolutely big, evil bad bug of the worst category. Its not just an annoyance.

    If Intel released 8th generation CPU while knowing it is affected by this as well, i am all for sueing them to hell and then all way back over it, like they do with Diesel-fraudsters in the car industry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  3. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I apologize for my last reply to you, I probably rang your alarm and made you nervous too early. While your processor seems to be heavily affected in according tasks that are vulnerable to the porblem and need PTI, as a gaming rig your system is unlikely to suffer a perceivable damage in performance. Sorry if I made you jumping up.
     
  4. Whipdiddywhip

    Whipdiddywhip Member

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    what about vr? it's more cpu dependant
     
  5. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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  6. higsy

    higsy Well-Known Member

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    So in terms I can understand, what exactly is the bug ? Has it been exploited ? Thanks
     
  7. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    To drastically oversimplify... There is a bug in Intel processors dating back a decade, where applications potentially have access to things they should never have access to. Potentially allowing passwords, log in credentials, and anything else that is private to be revealed.

    Apparently this is a hardware bug, and cannot simply be fixed with a firmware update to the processors by Intel, and instead needs to have a workaround fix in every operating system to get around it, which would be why there is a potential performance loss.

    The specifics are far more complicated and take some understanding of how operating systems function, which is beyond me. But Im sure better explanations will come out once the embargo's discussing these attacks lift.

    Has it been exploited? Tough to say given that the people who would try to exploit it would be doing so silently and never discuss it, so it never gets fixed. Since this has apparently been a problem for ~10 yrs in every Intel processor... We would have heard about this before now if it had been happening. Apparently it had been discovered by a team of people who's purpose was to look for exploits, and then discussed in the proper channels to keep it silent until a fix was possible.
     
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  8. higsy

    higsy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply...by the sounds of the fix they may be closing off a section of the processor to eliminate the issue . Hope this fix doesn' t effect some of the games or tweaks I've done and goes smoothly.
    Edit. I read the report and man it sounds complicated. Someone really screwed the pooch here. Hopefully they will offer disounts on new chips etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  9. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/3/16846540/intel-processor-security-flaw-bug-response
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/3/16846784/microsoft-processor-bug-windows-10-fix

    Windows patches for ARM, AMD and Intel CPUs are now in the wild.

    In fact a whole armada of patches is reported by some admins to come in, outside the usual timeline of Microsoft.

    It also gets vrpeported by some people that if AV is not compatible with these patches, they will not install automatically. Woody Leonhard's well-known blog is at Defcon 2, so status and quality of these patches also currently is unknown and unconfirmed.

    Its all a damn nasty and confused mess. Currently. Companies start to point fingers at each other, maybe breaking communication embargos to save themselves.
     
  10. higsy

    higsy Well-Known Member

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    Like they indicated already that this wouldn't have been(or shouldn't have ) been released unless there was a fix ready to be rolled out. Now the cyber criminals know what to look for.
     
  11. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    Here's a link to the official information about the attacks from the people who discovered them. So, without any PR nonsense from companies trying to pass blame... https://meltdownattack.com/

    edit: also similar information by Google's Project Zero team, who helped discover the exploits: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html

    It's briefly summarized on that main page, and then there are also some academic papers detailing the much more in depth points. The academic papers likely wont make a whole lot of sense unless you are familiar with that sort of stuff to begin with.

    Basically, at this time Meltdown affects Intel processors going back a decade and is a hardware issue. Workaround fixes are incoming, and may decrease your system performance in certain scenarios. Gaming likely minimally affected, professional work loads such as cloud computing, virtual machines, etc will be more so affected. Might be a few generations before Intel redesigns their architecture to no longer have this issue.

    Spectre is the other attack that affects 'everything.' Intel, AMD, ARM (so, basically any smartphone of recent years). At this time, there is no outright fix for it since this is also a hardware issue, however it is much more difficult to exploit. Security updates are coming though to mitigate the potential problems from what I have read elsewhere. Likely will be a few generations before this will be weeded out on a hardware level.

    That's a hell of a lot of devices affected by these exploits.
     
  12. Balrog

    Balrog Well-Known Member

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    The attacks exist already, they've just discovered them. Usually it is like this, there are the so-called "zero-day" exploits, these are unknown for the public yet and therefore those are great value for attackers, there are companies specializing in discovering these and sell them to criminal organizations. Once an exploit is discovered and becomes public, its value and success rate will decrease significantly so hackers will probably no longer use it.
     
  13. lrystedt

    lrystedt Member

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    Out of curiosity, is latest AMD cpu's using the same adressing as Intel?
     
  14. Karting06

    Karting06 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    VM = Virtual Machines?
     
  15. Whipdiddywhip

    Whipdiddywhip Member

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    games look unaffected

     
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  16. DomiGruen

    DomiGruen Member

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    If this is true, that are really good news! Thank you for the link to this Video.
     
  17. OlivierMDVY

    OlivierMDVY Active Member

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    Ok for games but for Windows itself?
     
  18. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the tasks running, but desktop users may have little reason to be too worried. Server centres however could be more heavily affected, seeing a noticable drop in net performance.

    Intel really got the artistic trick done to kick themselvves into their own family jewels.

    I want Intel getting sued deep, deep way down into a black hole for having released the 8th generation processors in Novembre although knowing since many months that they are affected by this mess. We are not talkign about an old production line being continued, but about opening a brandnew one of which they knew it is affected as well. The only option should hav ebeen to delay the release and to redesign the chips on hardware level. Unforgivable. Greedy bastards. I hope somebody is going to make them bleed seriously for this, like car makers bleed for the Diesel fraud.
     
  19. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

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    No it's time to buy Intel. :D Maybe prices will go down and issue fixed in new CPUs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  20. Gopher04

    Gopher04 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously it's abit late now for the warning, and I certainly wont trust anything MS/Intel send down the line to patch it now, and why the hell would you patch something and be happy with a performance loss, I think it's a bit of over the top scare mongering, I'm not saying it's not true but I wouldn't panic about it..
     
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