I prefer the old FFB

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by neil, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. inthebagbud

    inthebagbud Member

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    I have this issue as well slow corners basically have no feedback at all it just goes superlight using DD2 . Problem by turning multiplier up is other corners are fine so any increase makes the ffb way too much . As you say weird
     
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  2. inthebagbud

    inthebagbud Member

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    i agree the overall feel is better and based on the combo you use you can really appreciate the changes made. DD seem to have issues with the slower speed corners for some reason well at least i do !
     
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  3. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I wonder if it's because a belt wheel will have some inherent friction which will be felt as part of the FFB where as a DD wheel should be totally friction free. I don't know if there's anything wheelside you can add to help, I would be looking for a small amount of damping or inertia for example.
     
  4. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Looking at Fanatec DD wheels I'd experiment with small amounts of natural damper and friction setting. Just enough to give natural weight. The wheel should not spin totally freely.
     
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  5. inthebagbud

    inthebagbud Member

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    thanks for the input but i already got that plugged in , but doesn't solve the issue. Will keep trying different combinations of settings to see if we can conjure up that magic setting
     
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  6. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Did you try lowering the "Linearity" slider? Should bring the low-force feedback up without changing the high-force one.
     
  7. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    I'm on a G29 and I'm just finding the new FFB to be bizarre. To be specific let me talk about doing a recent race (against AI) at Suzuka in WTCR:

    a) I can clobber the curb in Degner (turn 8) and feel absolutely nothing, but I do get the vibration from the curb on the outside upon exiting. Same in turn 9.

    b) The old FFB had a "collision" slider which was helpful for these series where "rubbing is racing". Now the only way to know you've had contact with another car is working through this process of elimination in your head, "Why is my car suddenly pointing in a different direction?"

    c) I can feel the lift-off oversteer (common in fwd cars) at low speed but not high speed.

    d) There is absolutely no indication of understeer or that you're approaching understeer.

    This "physics-based" ffb is uninformative at best and misleading at worst. It's completely unrelated to what the car would be physically doing in real life.

    What I'm feeling is of course a reflection of the fact that I have linearity at the minimum and bump effects at the maximum, and minimum effects at the maximum. But the overall FFB level has absolutely no impact on what level of useful information I'm getting from the wheel--it simply governs how hard it is to turn.

    Despite the less-than-stellar graphics, I had previously found Raceroom to be by far the most immersive racing sim. But it's hard to call a title immersive when you have no idea why your car is now spinning. Did I get hit, is it LOO, something else?

    If this FFB downgrade is what Raceroom is going to go with, that DX11/12 upgrade better be coming quickly, as what you can see is now the only way to know what's going on with the car, at least on so-called "low-end" wheels.

    Edit: Please see continuing discussion below. Was ultimately able to get to where I was happy once I ignored the "recommended" settings and started experimenting in somewhat extreme ways with the sliders.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  8. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a good example of why pure front wheels forces might not be enough.
     
  9. inthebagbud

    inthebagbud Member

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    thanks for the tip and whilst this does amplify the lower signal is doesn't do anything for the cornering feel and actually does something a little bit weird to the overall signal on the DD2 which got immediately turned off .

    Thanks anyway
     
  10. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    You are running the most fucked up settings I've ever seen and wonder why you feel only weight? If you can't read the help text under each slider and understand it then there's not a lot of hope for you is there.

    If you are running minimum force at 100 that means you always get maximum, always, no matter what the game is trying to tell you.

    You're the one. There's always one. You're him.
     
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  11. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    @ravey1981 I absolutely disagree with you on that, both on your arguments and on your personal attack on the guy.

    No, minimum forces only go up to 15%.
    This is how the default setting for G29 look like and his custom settings in comparison.

    ffb-g29-vs-extreme.png

    Doesn't look broken.

    His setting are indeed very extreme, but it doesn't indicate that he didn't read the text. It goes quite in line with what he describes he gets and what he wants to get. No details in corners? Amplify it. Still nothing? Amplify bumps. When you're not seeing what you think you should see, it's totally reasonable to go to extreme values and see what it does.

    Even if he might be wrong, your reply is not how you refute someone's statements. It's fine to be incorrect (we humans aren't omniscient), but it's not fine to get personal and ridicule someone for that.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  12. tennenbaum

    tennenbaum New Member

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    you did great with the new FFB. (t300 user)
     
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  13. RampageRacing

    RampageRacing Well-Known Member

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    I have trouble understanding this. I drive with a G27 and I cannot for the life of me get a decent feel or much of any road feedback through my wheel in ACC. I have tried everything. I have played with adjustments and even installed the "fix" using the LUC(sp?) tables. Nothing gave the wheel any weight or road feel.

    With R3Es new FFB, I thought they had made the same mistake as Kunos which is apparently catering to only those drivers that have over $1000 in their sim set-ups. However, after I used the FFB multiplier and made a couple other minor adjustments, I find that I am getting much better information and feel through the wheel after a couple minutes of testing and adjusting than I was ever capable of getting in ACC after months of trying.

    Different strokes for different folks I guess.

    [QUOTE="stlutz, post: 225184, member: 28191"

    a) I can clobber the curb in Degner (turn 8) and feel absolutely nothing, but I do get the vibration from the curb on the outside upon exiting. Same in turn 9.

    b) The old FFB had a "collision" slider which was helpful for these series where "rubbing is racing". Now the only way to know you've had contact with another car is working through this process of elimination in your head, "Why is my car suddenly pointing in a different direction?"
    d) There is absolutely no indication of understeer or that you're approaching understeer.
    [/QUOTE]

    Interesting!
    I agree with the curb feel thing on entry level wheels. You hear them in the audio but you really do not feel much of anything. I can compare what I am feeling in the wheel to what I have actually felt in real life in a car and on the same track. You feel more through the wheel when striking or riding up over a curb than what I have managed to get simulated so far.

    As far as the collision with other cars, I had not thought of the lack of a collision setting now. I have run about 70 some laps with the new FFB and have not really had a hard hit with another car. I did lose it once and hit a wall but cannot honestly remember how the imapact felt. I guess I am going to have to intentionally hit some AI cars to see how the FFB feels when that happens.

    I do believe when my car starts understeering I can feel the front tires scrubbing through the wheel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  14. anno900

    anno900 Active Member

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    I have t300 rs. I deleted simbin folder and started the game. Set up everything and use default ffb and it works fine. I used ffb meter. F4, F3 and GroupC. Ffb meter with default ffb setup was fine. Seldom over the red line. Very driveable. Only feeling for over- and understeer is worse. So I'm ok with new ffb. I was scared by some postings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  15. swigaffu

    swigaffu New Member

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    I am really impressed. I spent many hours today reconfiguring everything (DD2 + Formula V2) and it feels really very good. But what I like a lot more is the completely new menu navigation. For me, that takes R3E to a whole new level. Thank you for the great job.
     
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  16. Paul Bennett

    Paul Bennett New Member

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    Decided to delete the documents file and reset my TX , this has made all the difference. FFB was a bit numb lifeless before, everything at default with just 30% gear shift it's spot on now less is more !

    Also reset car setups to default as well as steering ratios, JF mentioned on Discord post
     
  17. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    LOL!

    I'm one of those people who actually prefers less steering weight--for me, I found that I was just slower when it was hard to turn the wheel.

    And that's how you can see why I liked the old FFB--it was easy to dial back the steering difficulty but maintain the other aspects of car feel--whether that be understeer, weight transfer, whether you were on the edge of the curb or climbing up on it, whether or not you're making contact with a car in a blind spot etc.

    The good news is, after fucking things up even more I think I actually have it in a fairly good spot now!

    I've dialed the overall FFB back to 25%, set the minimum at 4%, maxed out the bump effects, and set the linearity at the minimum of 50%. In the per-car settings I'm then dialing the multiplier way, way up. For example, in the Renault Megane WTCR, I've changed the multiplier from 1.7 to 5.1 (an increase of 3x).

    That has things in a spot where I can still have moderate steering weight, but I can feel most of the other things I want from the FFB. The effects are more subtle than before, but I'll probably get used to it as I play more. Only thing I haven't gotten back is any kind of collision feel. Would really like to see them add this back as an optional "canned" effect.

    Hopefully my experience might be helpful to others--main suggestion is not not be afraid to try weird settings--they might just work!
     
  18. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Just so you know. Decreasing the overall force and then increasing the car multiplier puts you in exactly the same place force wise.
     
  19. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    In actual practice on my wheel--no. Not even close. I did test that.
     
  20. stlutz

    stlutz Member

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    Okay, so I did an hour race with Forumula 3 cars at Brno tonight--a type of car I've never tried in Raceroom before. Was very happy with the FFB as I ultimately got it setup. Felt like I had really good feel for where the edge of grip was. So, I consider my complaint resolved--aside from a desire to have collision effects either as a separate slider or just incorporated into the existing bump one.

    Bottom line for other G29 etc. folks--don't be afraid to wander far away from the "recommended" approach.