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Initial Feedback about the Force Feedback...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by VFX Pro, Jun 23, 2021.

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Do you agree with my feedback on the new FFB below?

  1. Big Time!!

    35.0%
  2. Somewhat

    30.0%
  3. Dude, what are you smoking?

    35.0%
  1. Coanda

    Coanda Member

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    I love it; nice and natural.. Tested CR1, GTE, GT2, GR A, GR C, M1 GR4 on 320mm rim and FR 2 on 270 mm rim..

    I'm all for damping; maybe feels a little too much on the FR 2..
     
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  2. Vi42per

    Vi42per New Member

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    According to your profile, you're also using Fanatec DD. Can you confirm, that you can still feel the aforementioned tear/scrub as one would expect? It looks almost like a pattern now, because OP, as well as Shad (https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...k-about-the-force-feedback.17146/#post-224800) and me as well, are using Fanatec DD and suffer from sudden lack of this particular feedback.
     
  3. Coanda

    Coanda Member

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    nah it's not there however I am OK with that.. I am using a INT filter at 2 & 3 which has enough surface noise without being over the top. I have enough info for my sensors for what the rear is doing + I am use to iR not having this either..
     
  4. Vi42per

    Vi42per New Member

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    Lucky you, this feedback (resp. lack of) was one of the reasons I left ACC and iR for Raceroom :(
     
  5. Coanda

    Coanda Member

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    there is front tyre scrub though.. kinda briefly feels like you have a minor flatspot through the corner..

    sorry matey I guess some do need that rear tyre slip feedback to get on.. Maybe give it a week or two to let your sensors adjust...

    I just tested the FR 1 & FR X.. They feel good and have a little less Damping than the FR 2.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  6. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    There was an update right now (10 min ago ) and the Hockenheim isdue seems to solved. Tested a FR2 with 3cm Roadheight at 75% ...clearly nice driving and no jolting anymore in T9.....

    Edit says:
    Test with FR X17 , Group 5 Cars ( Capri..) and GT3 McLaren now all positive....no Probs anymore and FFB with Roadbumps at 75% very nice...
     
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    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  7. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    As always, there's not going to be a lot of agreement among players regarding ffb.

    I like the immersion I get from some added ffb-effects, one being tire scrub.

    As much as ACC-ffb is highly regarded within the Sim-Community, I've never really felt it was that good. The main issue I have is that Kunos eliminated our ability to amplify the scrub ("tire-slip"). Without that ability, I'm not able to retain the scrub effect without also having grainy overall ffb. Had that feature been included in ACC, we'd have the option to filter the ffb to a higher level (remove grainy feeling) while retaining the scrub effect. It's too much of a "one size fits all" approach to ffb, imo.

    I do appreciate that Sector3 provides us the ability to amplify bump effects though, that seems quite effective.

    Fortunately, the tire-audio is very good in RR, so we still have that to help with grip-loss.
     
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  8. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    The tire scrub-effect in the previous RR-ffb was not very dynamic in how it worked but, I agree it was better than nothing. It feels more natural in AC and AMS2, imo. In any case, such effect needs to be adjustable in order to effectively function with various hardware and settings. As it is in ACC, it's simply not strong enough to be felt with much filtering at all.

    The good news with the new RR ffb is that the overall dynamics are much improved and each car can have it's own unique steering feel and we have great audio cues to help with tire scrub.

    Still, as an immersion player, I'll always miss the scrub-effect in FFB. AMS2-ffb is superb from a personalization aspect, there are so many options within the custom profiles. It probably spoils us, though.o_O

    Change is always hard. :eek::)
     
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  9. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    Regarding Engine Vibes, it's about the immersion factor. I became very accustomed to that effect when I owned the AccuForce. It added a lot to the ffb, especially with titles that had relatively sterile ffb but, SimCommander was quite effective in terms of the dynamic nature of such telemetry-driven effects.
     
  10. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Yes, AMS2 is on the way to defining a new standard in FFB and some other areas...but they still lack a strong
    Hmm, I had an FFB file in GTR2 long ago, which made me feel every stone under the tyres when rolling slowly. And extensive Engine vibes too. And that on a G25 from 2010.....But tbh...What I didn't like was, that these vibes really kind of made my fingers feel numb on longer races. Immersion is ok, but one shouldn't overdo it. In the end, we are still talking about a sim which we want to use to produce some results....so as much as drivability plays a role in racecars, it plays a role in Simracing too. Too much of tasty meal may also make you.....you know what I mean.
     
  11. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    After reading a few articles from the Dev Team on the FFB on this site, I realized I had to do some changes in Fanalab and turn off my interpolation filtering, crank up the game FFB to 100% and reduce the FFB to 40% in Fanalab. Suddently, more details were available on my DD2 and the default FFB value in the car setup started to make sense and now the FFB for much more natural.
     
  12. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Now crank up roadbumps to anything between 70 and 90 (I use 75 ) and after that adjust only on a per car basis in the car setup ( FFB multiplier ) These changes will be saved with the car setup. So you could use this for customizing ffb force each car on each track.

    And...don't be surprised. My testing revealed, at least to me, that smaller and , more important, lighter cars, react way more subtle to the changes in enginevibes and roadbumps. Also the frontwheeldrive cars ( mainly TCR and WTCC/WTCR ) feel differently @RB 75% then with RB set at 0...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  13. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    I can appreciate what you mean by "too much" but, I've spent years exploring various combinations of feedback devices and have yet to find my personal limits (except for financial ones). :p:D

    I'll keep trying though. Everybody's different but, todays hardware can do a lot more things effectively at once than ever before. When it all works in concert, it's freakin' awesome! The next thing to add are sustained GeForce effects.

    With something like engine-vides, the effective range isn't that broad, higher frequencies are always going to washout at some point. Reiza has the right idea, limit the engine-vibe effect to lower rpm's. There are plenty of other dynamic effects to fill the voids so the ffb should never feel dull.
     
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  14. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    I am with you. Now this is the S3 forum, so I don't want to brag about other peoples toys...which are always nicer...

    But, kind of final word on Reiza from my end. If I would relate cars to respective sims, then I would say R3E is the Volkswagen among sims. Does a lot of things right. Offers a lot for everyone. Delivers a very good everday quality. Userfriendly, capable. And to a certain degree immersive. Worth it's money ? You bet. Is it spectacular ? Not really.
    ACC is the Porsche. Can do a lot of things very good but is specialized. Can touch your heart, but some parts of the car will never be as they should be...rfactor2 is Audi for me...technically super but not really userfriendly. Kind of cold and clean...and a bit....sorry to say that as a german, dull...AMS2...isse for me like e da Ferrari...mixed with a Corvette...not more to say if you know what I mean....
     
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  15. Andrew_WOT1

    Andrew_WOT1 New Member

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    We used to have this screen for setting DOR, how do we set it up now.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    in "Settings"...Lefthand menue...
    Graphics : it has under graphics even a capable fov calculator.which sets the correct Fov according to your input ..great tool btw.
     
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  17. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    SC1 does some strange things if I try to change DOR in wheel-driver without changing it in-game first.
    Does TrueDrive do that too?
     
  18. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but that shouldn't happen. FFB doesn't affect your car physics unless it's strong enough to interfere with your steering inputs.

    Especially that:
    FFB shouldn't affect how hard your front wheels jump up and down on curbs.

    But if it does, that's an interesting bug... @Thomas Jansen
     
  19. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Well Thomas, it happend and not only once but several times and it was reproducable. Yesterday and this morning.
    I questioned this myself, hence the testrun with gradually increased "Immersion only" FFB, in particular roadbumbs.

    I have driven countless laps at Hockenheim in several sims and even in a real world rally car ( years ago, sadly ) . I never had such an experience, which lead me to the test procedure I described.

    For time constraints, I did not list all the notes I took after each and every testlap this morning (2DinA4 pages of squiggly lines) but it was evident for me, that with increased bumping, tyres start to react until a point where the even lost contact on the curbs and the whole car became more "wobbly". Which is not unusual for an , otherwise stiff, racecar when it's driven over increasingly bumby roads without adapting the setup. Went through that just the other day on in AMS2 on Interlagos in my 2001 F1 McLaren.
    One of the findings I have "on tape" wad, that the incident happend with bumpiness at 75%. Not 10,20,30,40 or 50, but 75 and above.
    And it happend only with cars having a low ride height.
    I am not an engineer and by no means a specialist in setting up race cars. But I know what I feel in the car ( or not feel )...

    When looking at the location of this incident and what I could take from the replay and the moment it happend, it seems that the car's suspension was still somewhat "compressed" from the trailbrake at the apex of T9 ( right side ) while already going wider on the curbs.
    In my naive view, it looks like the car kind of "locked in" on a higher part of the curb while the car was at it's lowest position...

    But then again, I could be totally wrong.
    However, Alex wanted to inform the devs to have a look into it. Later today I noticed an update of R3E and since then the problem is gone and not anymore reproducable.
    Fine for me.

    best regards
    Stefan
     
  20. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

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    Hockenheim was a track issue which should be fixed. The bump amplification definitely doesn't change any car physics directly, but it absolutely can change the behaviour of the car because it will be moving your wheel around like you have a lot of bump steer. This constant back and forth could definitely cause some extra tire heating too I imagine :p
     
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