Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Andrew Hennessy, Jun 24, 2019.
If anyone wants to help me out, I would appreciate it
Slow in fast out is the simplest rule of thumb. Practice corner exit, get this right, then speed up the entry. If you don't left foot brake, then start with that. Several good setup guides online, which will be imperative as you progress and understanding what adjustment to setup will make you faster, is best learned from the beginning rather than taking a step back later, which can be frustrating. Use the leaderboards, set a time then use faster people to show you the best lines. As a rule it's all about momentum, not every turn involves 100% braking on entry, just as every exit doesn't require full gas. Make sure you start with the right vehicle, you will learn far more from the FRJunior, master this and progression will be far simpler. The FRJ will teach you the art of weight transfer, using your feet to steer the car, relying on mechanical grip rather than aero, master this and everything else seems easier. Just to make you even miserabler, this is just the start. The only reason people are fast is through relentless practice and learning the basics is by far the best way to progress, rather than one step forward and two back approach. OH and watch how other people do things and bloody relax, tension is as good as hitting the brakes, to do this means having fun, if it becomes frustrating, step away completely, you won't get quicker.
Race Department have bucket loads of useful people and tips, as do many other clubs, plenty of useful information out there, just don't get bogged down in it. Simple setup guide and plenty of watching and driving. Good luck!
this video from Skip Barber racing school is a gold mine:
Also worth a recommendation is the YouTube channel from Driver61.
Thank you for the tips, guys
The Going Faster video is a great resource.
In order to go fast you must be able to do it slow, hit your marks and the speed will come.
Also refrain from making setup changes until you are able to run consistent laps. Making changes to a car before you can exhibit the ability for repeat-ability will only frustrate and potentially develop bad technique.
And finally practice solo and then do AI or live events. Sometimes getting in and racing against other cars will tempt you to abandon what the videos taught if you haven't committed them to mental and muscle memory. Good luck.
Assuming you have it, the BMW235i is a fantastic learner car, probably more so than the FRJ.
It's inherently far more stable than the FRJ, so less frustrating to run when starting out.
Very little you can change in the setup, minimizing the variables.
Finally, it is perhaps a good idea to figure out what your end goal is.
If you want to mix it up with the big boys, you WILL need to commit yourself to hours and hours of practice, there's just no avoiding this. But there's plenty of fun to be had with less.
Personally, I simply don't have the time for that much practice, so I have my own goals when doing e.g. leaderboards.
If I can get within 2-3 seconds of the top guys, I call that 'good enough' and leave well enough alone.
(And trust me, I have to work pretty hard just to get to there. )
How to get faster?
First, forget about setups!
A guy, fast as an alien, told me, track knowledge is what you gives seconds!
Setups gives you tenth.
I my opinion the most important thing is, learn to brake and learn where to look at!
When you can't brake right, you don't hit the corner right.
Memorize the braking markers and try to hit them perfect.
All other things comes from alone, when you hit the braking marker right.
You brake to early, you are too slow, you brake to late, you are to fast for the corner.
Go from corner to corner around the track.
Where to look at?
This is very important.
Watch far away, check you braking marker, brake.
You brake in straight line and begin with downshift, in this time look into the corner, when you can, focus on the apex.
It depends from corner to corner.
But in the meantime where you are braking, look into the corner.
After some practice you will be able to see how much speed you can carry into the corner.
You will get a feeling for the turn in point and the speed.
When you start with turn in, ease the brake and the more you turn in the more you release the brake.
Roll to the apex and when you hit the apex, look to corner exit.
Then you get a feeling, when it's time to accelerate.
On turnin never pull the throttle.
You shift the balance to the back of the car and you get understeer.
In most cases, 9 out of 10 if your car understeers like mad, you turn and turn the steering wheel and then you get massive snap oversteer,you braked to late.
Watch you replays.
Compare a good lap with a bad lap.
Watch both in cockpit view and after that in chase cam.
In chase cam you see perfect if you use all the track or of you hit the apex well.
As example, when I see in chase cam that I missed the apex, I stop the replay and switch to cockpit view. In cockpit it looked like I hit the apex.
So you can compare the onboard with outboard view.
Practice, practice and practice.
But don't get mad, after some practice, you will hit a time wall.
You can't go faster, you begin to overdrive the car.
Don't get mad.
Take a brake, give your brain time to build up muscle memory.
My 2 cents
Take good care of your teeth so you can spend more time practicing and less at the dentist
Very useful. Being a shit driver, the basic approach may help in becoming better and more enjoyable driving
Make sure you set the force feed back to levels which communicate car behavior that you can understand to a point that it works with you and in your favour.
FFB will be your enemy if you set it in a way that your mind doesnt follow the cues that it gets from the wheel whilst receiving data from your eyes/screen.
Having a controller setup that works in synergy with you is paramount.
FFB off is also good way to test if FFB setup is helping or harming, if you gain time without FFB then your FFB is not optimal. I do find with cheap wheel that it can be bit slow to react so I keep FFB quite low.
Minimum force setting I keep off as if I turn quickly left and then right, FFB starts doing things when I'm already back turning to right, it is then just slowing me down, so minimum force 0% gives me dead center area, but ffb is not harming and makes it faster to do quick adjustments.
With fast expensive wheel probably not so.
Pick a short track, because it is easier to memorize braking points etc, then use leaderboards and challenge button, start with someone who is getting roughly similar times as you and work your way up, like I did with this competition, I really dislike that car, but managed to get to position 64 for now:
I did same with Suzuka, which I had not driven much at all since days of GP2, I'm on place 71 now, but when I started I barely did stay on track, with first 10 laps my time was around 700 position or so, then as I followed faster ghost cars I could work my way up, it took me only a part of the day to get there, some setup changes were needed and I think that I could improve my time even more as I loose a lot in few turns.
I have driven on Suzuka 392.8km 33 valid laps and 36 invalid laps, total time says under 3 hours.
I'm quite slow these days and I have only rarely good days where I can actually drive something fast like GTR3, but some days it works somewhat ok, any younger guy with careful practicing same way could get faster, but ditch default FFB settings, they are not so good. I put Effects off, understeer effect thing especially off as it just hammers wheel, I only have contact patch and steering arm vertical forces on I think, FFB levels quite low. I think steering arm was 80% or so and contact patch 20%, there is not much else than alignment feel and feel of understeer making wheel lighter when turning too much.
Oh and I have never been too consistent with my laptimes (you can kinda see with so many invalid laps at Suzuka), I kind forget which turn I'm in or zone out right before braking zone, for me making good laps is always a struggle because of that, so certainly you can do quite ok too with practice if I can, that 10% on leaderboard competitions is achievable goal!
You are right about reducing FFB makes you faster, faster turns, quicker reaction BUT...........less enjoyable. For me personally must have medium-strong FFB and good sound. I enjoy fighting the wheel.
Ah yes, that is other side of coin indeed, one must find compromise which works for himself best by experimenting!
I remember almost 20 years a go when alien guys had wheels without FFB, I think it was Canadian company that made those very precise wheels back then. DD wheels might be finally enough quick to have FFB on and fast, donations accepted
I rememer precise wheels without FFB in some old arcade driving game. Yes it may sound funny but true. For examle Pole position, monaco gp, outrun etc....not related to sim racing but when talking precision, they were amazing.
When I played PGR on the regular, I was one of the fastest drivers at Monza. Know why? Practice. I knew where every bump on the track lived. Thousands of laps testing setups. Fast isn't a gimmick or a tutorial. Fast is an ongoing commitment to excellence.
PGR had only the Nordschleife and fictional tracks.
Not sure he requested a magic potion, just help getting faster, of which there is a process. You could practice for the rest of your life and not get any quicker if you're not going about it the right way. Most over complicate it, learn track, be consistent, then start working on corner exit, when you can't exit the turn any faster, work on the entry, then complex's, then back to consistent laps at your new quicker times. Repeat!
Oh and remember the older you get the harder it gets, I've found youngsters who have never driven aren't hindered by a drivers perception of how a real car would respond, bit like Marc Marques having no concept of physics, giving him superhuman capabilities to save an already crashed motorcycle!
practice-practice-practice! : D
I know exactly what he was asking. Just saying there will be long hours ahead.
Sounds like you could benefit from taking part in the ESR Academy series.
See the site and join our discord for more info
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