Problem Major power understeer on all cars (some its worse than others)

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by RWB 3vil, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    Wheel: Thrustmaster TX 458 Italia - 900degress
    DRIVERS FORCE FEEDBACK (Package 2018_TTRS_3) + Firmware
    Control panel all default bar the spring and damper at 0 in the FFB gain menu

    Pedals: Fanatec CSL Elite (non LC) connected via Clubsport adapter

    In game profiles: Custom & TM TX458+Fanatec CLubsport USB adapter (pedals mode) + keyboard

    Win 10

    Game FFB

    FFB: 100
    Force Intensity 60
    Understeer effect 50
    Lateral 30
    Vertical 60
    Rack 100
    Slip 25
    Kerbs 25

    everything else 0


    I get crippling power under steer in this game to the point that i under steer so badly that I overheat my fronts within 3 laps making the under steer even worse (obviously). It wont matter if i take it easy or go hell for leather. I have tried settings cars up with softer front suspension, bumps etc and whilst it helps some what the under steer generated under power or at high revs coming off the throttle is ruining my experience.

    On occasion my club run nights with fixed set ups so I cant alter any settings and there are many instances where I am so slow through sharp corner complexes I get hit from behind or I create ques of cars waiting to pounce on me as the car will not grip on the front. I have tried numerous FFB mixtures to see if there is some weird glitch with my wheel and whilst stiff centre spring mixtures like 0 steering rack 60+ lat or vert (which I hate) help a little bit the under steer that comers from going on the throttle is still there.

    Here in this vid example this is lap 2 or 3, and you can see that I under steer so badly that the car behind casually overtakes me on the inside staying on the power where as I am dabbing the throttle and wheel just to try and re grip the front, or come the hair pin I am having to turn the wheel so far just to have the turning power under throttle just to get out of the corner with some speed.



    If anyone knows what might be wrong or has experienced under steer this extreme and nothing seems to work please advise on what you found was the issue . Is it faulty drivers, does the TX 458 have a weird issue with this game, Is my wheel is dying slowly?

    Im at an utter loss and rather miserable about the whole thing as I have had to pull out of the leagues our club have planned for early 2019 as I am a liability on the track like this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  2. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's your settings, I think it's your driving style. Porsche especially does not like late braking, brake earlier and hit your apex. Accelerating whilst running wide is only going to scrub the tyres and understeer even more.
     
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  3. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    Thats just an example i recorded

    Anycar:
    The last corner at Zandvort I have to off power early (aim for the dirt right of the apex) just to get the grip back and power understeer around the corner which is 1 sec min slower than anyone else. The last chicane at Salzberg Ring I have to slow down more than everyone else and teeter around the first left hander and nearly always under steer hitting the right kerb unsettling the car or worse clipping/entering the sand trap. Just to name a few examples.

    I do hope that its just me being new to the sim, as I cant afford to buy new kit if something is wrong with mine.
     
  4. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Ok so basics....I'm not sure how TS drivers work but rather that set to 900 can you set it so that wheel rotation is set by the game (then adjust per car in car setup menu) that would rule out any indesrepancy between what you are doing at the wheel and the in game steering. Any other wheel settings change the feel but will not change the actual physics/grip of the tyres. Other than that it's just driving style, slow in fast out is usually best. What other Sims are you playing and any issues with those?
     
  5. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    pcars 2 or ams. not had any US Issues like this

    also TM wheels dont have a forced rotation mode like logitech used to. the control panel will allow a game to alter the rotation and revert it back to what you had it set at after the game closes and releases control over the tm api. pcars 2 does this well.

    AMS doesn't send the command to revert the control panel back to the original setting and will leave the CP in the rotation the last car you were is was set at. real pain. RRE does release control properly. in short if i set anything to less than 900 any game that auto sets on a per car basis wil make the rotation mess up in game eg you set the TM CP at 450 then go into RRE or Pcars 2 and race a 900 deg rotation car the feeling will be unnatural to the cars proper rotation.

    a club member of mine runs a DD wheel and constantly has to alt tab to set the wheel rotation in the control panel as the game wont send the command to alter the control panel for his wheel.

    I get that style is playing a part but when you know your doing your upmost to not get under steer and that results in being so much slower than everyone like painfully slow into a corner that a car behind you is caught out because the speed difference is huge and can result in a crash else something may be wrong with the game communicating withg the CP.

    if it was just pure speed and being too fast then there wouldn't be instances of me being hit from the back because i cannot power through like the car behind me attempted to do but is now faced with a slow object that was .05secs ahead and is now a slow solid object that has lost 0.5 or worse due to having to go slow or face under steer so fierce more input does nothing holding revs does nothing and the only way to reengage the track is by coming off the throttle and scrubbing the acceleration inertia to regrip and turn, regrip turn regrip turn, on off on off the power all in fractions of seconds whilst the car behind is sailing through the apex on the gas. This will happen at any speed, whether im thundering out a corner as you're supposed to, say after you exit druids after your rotated or whether your teetering on the gas because the corner is so sharp on hairpin curve just before 200R any sudden thrust (acceleration force) and the US effect kicks in.

    Ive also noticed that the car will not leap into action on anything above 45-50% throttle but mostly 80% ( fanatec elite LC non loadcell) despite the fanatec control panel showing full travel on the meter and the game showing the same in the controls section ( sensitivity 50% defaults)

    edit: also ive noticed that the TM control panel wont allow me to "APPLY" anything if i make changes the button is always greyed out. if i alter the FFB for exampled i can only click OK never apply. when i reload the CP the changes have taken hold but i wonder if RRE isnt able to alter the 900 deg the cp is set at once i load into a track. ill have to test and see if the cp is being altered on the fly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  6. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    So assuming game setting rotation ok, which the input meter seems to show. The only explanation is your driving. On the video you posted none of your lines were anywhere near correct, the reason the guy undertook you is that you went to fast into the corner (or lost grip on the brakes) and missed the apex. He took a proper line, apexed and undertook you easily.

    Perhaps it's your brakes, are you locking up and hence having no steering? As an experiment try using ABS and see if it helps. If it does then it's your braking that's wrong...
     
  7. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    Yes my lines were terrible, if i try to stick to the line im really slow. this wasnt a great example of my experiences but its all i had recorded. im happy to admit if i need more practice, as i do enjoy battling with others when im capable but something still isnt right excluding some of my corner attack choices although they arent helping

    just checked cp when i ran rre again after reinstalling drivers. set TM CP overall forces to 60% down from default 75%

    in RRE re loaded default TM TX profile and altered buttons to my liking, leaving FFB default
    loaded zandvort & amg gt3 and in the garage the wheel is set at 540 (default)

    exited garage and the wheel rotated until it hit the soft bump set by the new rotation. alt tabbed and opened the TM CP and the rotation showed 540. did a few laps.

    back in garage set rotation to 450 left garage, animation of wheel stops where 450 is supposed to, alt tabbed and opened TM CP but the rotation is still set at 540. exited track and game, reopened CP and it reverted to 900 which is what it was when i booted RRE.

    does this mean once i run a car im stuck at the rotation the first car i use is set to, and running the cars the TM CP won alter? Ill need to do more testing. if it will stay stuck to what I first use will this be a cause of odd steering behavior if i dont alt tab and manually adjust?
     
  8. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    No, it should adjust automatically when you swap cars. Perhaps a dev who uses a TM product can assist @Georg Ortner

    Regarding line, the racing line will always be fastest and as such requires the least steering input, any other line is a compromise and you are likely to understeer if trying to take the wrong line at full racing pace.
     
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  9. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    Indeed it should, it clearly does when i first run the game. if im going to have to alt tab every time i run a different car it wil be a pain, but if it stops this US behavior m struggling to tackle then ill do it
     
  10. RWB Rodders

    RWB Rodders Member

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    I’ll just add that Evil can drive and anything bad in that vid was simply down to him being confused over what is going on and trying stuff to correct it.

    He keeps up with or beats me regularly and I’ve got the WR in the AMG GT3 around Zandvoort.

    I generally find many cars more understeery in R3E than I’d expect but not to the extreme Evil has. I suspect the default understeery behaviour is just the power diff settings which cant be adjusted on many cars. Doesn’t explain the level of US being seen here though.
     
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  11. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Even cars with fixed diff settings are driveable with default setup...
    .maybe not fast but certainly driveable. There must be something going on.

    @RWB 3vil without changing anything on your TM software set up a car with 360 Deg steering in the car setup. Check that your real life wheel stops at that. Then change to another car, set up with 720 Deg and again check it works. If everything is fine go back to the first car and see if it's still working at 360. If it is, quit and restart game and then see if these setups are still the same and working. If all goes well then we will know that I'm game changes are working and being saved. If so can then set those cars back to default.

    If the above works then we know that it is a settings or setup issue rather than a wheel issue and can move on from there.
     
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  12. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    Since finding out that TM wheels have a way to alter the incorrect steering alignment ( my wheel was slightly off when the panel said it was centered which is 50%) and changing the default overall force from 75% to 60% the wheel feels much crisper and cleaner on the initial turn in after breaking/slowing and re using the default TX profile (with personal keybinds set afterwards)

    i tried a few minutes ago a DTM 92 Ford. default is 900, left garage turned wheel and it rotated all the way to 900, alt tabbed, 900 as it was upon rre boot, went out and beat my own time. was 54s now i can easily do 53s.

    went to the caymen on the track featured in the video. car is default 545. out on track wheel stopped at the bump where 545 is supposed to be alt tabbed and CP was 545, went back to garage changed to 450 out, all good, tabbed CP 450. With the alterations to the CP as mentioned above i will still under steer if i over do it but its much easier not to and to recognize when its going to happen because the wheel behaves in a much crisper fashion. Was it the misalignment thats has now been fixed ( it was 1% out to the left when the CP said it was centred) or is it due to the lower default FFB in the CP now at 60% (which is the default for the more powerful T500).

    At 75% the default RRE profile FFB ( intensity 70 vertical 40 lat 60) the wheel clips and moves so much over bumps causing me to spin easily 60 makes it feel much crisper especially on turn in. I can still feel US on that Cayman but thats more of how the car is and now i can spot how to avoid it easier. Ive not been on salzberg with any cars after these changes so the testing needs to continue despite my wheel feeling better after todays tinkering.

    I do feel that even though the CP seems top be changing ill alt tab every time just to be sure and to always check the car has the steering setting reverted to default.
     
  13. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    will do right now be right back
     
  14. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Glad you got it sorted. The Cayman is about of an arsehole to drive anyway I find.
     
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  15. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding steering rotation I always up it a bit anyway, gives me finer control and makes catching slides etc easier. Eg GT3 cars default to 540 but I generally run around 700. For less ffb over bumps turn vertical load down a bit.
     
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  16. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    ok car 1 default 540 set to 360, change felt.

    car 2 default 900 before i altered to 720 i went on track and the wheel was stuck in 360, went back to garage set to 720 change felt.

    Back to car 1 and straight out wheel was set to 360 as i had saved it to. Back to car 2 wheel set itself to 720 as last set to.

    Rebooted game

    Car 1 still at 360, reset to default, change not felt, reentered garage to reset to default even though i had just done it, change felt.

    Car 2 was 720 as per reboot last saved setting, changed in garage to 900 change felt.

    I have to on occasion it appears make sure to double check any changes are felt especially iof they are extreme changes although im not in the habit of doing such.

    also @ravey1981 what benefits does running a GT3 at 700 have? Im genuinely curious as it must surely mean that your steering input is now largely exaggerated?

    edit: nm re read your reply.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  17. RWB Rodders

    RWB Rodders Member

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    lol yes it is a bit of a bawbag the Cayman lol. I kinda like it though ;)
     
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  18. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    as i said earlier i took it out after these changes and thought id use the driving line just to see how utterly wrong i was at driving the Cayman. Id heard the RRE lines were based on the car your in rather than juts a generic brake here in red green bit power here. I was surprised to see the amount of brake tapping points for the Cayman, especially for the hard braking into turn one where it displayed hard brakes for the first part then a few stabs in the area where normally youre expected to modulate from 100% downwards. I would have never of realised thats what was needed for this car so i followed the guide and its turned in much better.

    It reminded me of an iracing video from a real Porsche gt3 driver saying how different porsche cars are and that now the licence is open and people wil be clamoring to drive them in their fav sim the video was him describing how they drive as many will be shocked at the behavior due to driving cars very unlike Porsche and one part he said that Porsche need to have the load spread on to the front in a vastly different way than most cars , essentially hard initial input (stamp) then small inputs to keep reasonable load of the front as the weight is all in the back due to the engine. I'd completely forgotten about that vid until i used the DL in RRE for a short while and was impressed to see that the guide points actually suited the Porsche i was in. The small brake inputs made a big difference as i was just doing the brake 100% for a few secs and coming off the brake which wasnt correct and the load on the front was too much or not nearly enough
     
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  19. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely, the lastest cars in the game have very good physics. The Porsche cup car especially needs weight keeping on the front end by trail braking into the apex. If you lift off the brakes all the weight moves back and there's no front grip. Try the Porsche 934. Lovely car to drive if you like historic stuff, and makes every other car easy to drive afterwards.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  20. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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    I bought that the moment it was available but due to my previous wheel issues it was a nightmare. Ill be dead keen on taking the old girl out for spin now that my wheel feels like a completely different beast.

    Heck if my trousers get too tight from the excitement ill take it on the green hell and see how much i sweat from nerves instead.