Soooooo, I am here again because I am again having AI problems when racing on my own against the AIs. Before the rant begins, I must also notify all you developers that the past Watkins Glen problem where AIs make warping fast lap times, has been finally ironed out which I am so thankful for. But sadly, there are more things to fix that you shouldnt sweep under the rug. Here are the problems I have encountered at the following tracks 1: Slovakiaring Here the warping-pace issue still exist but unlike Watkins Glen, here the AIs can set lap times which have been set by people on the leaderboard. Just like before, with GTR3(my favourite category), I can make decent lap times at 1:59:5 but with skill level 100 AI, they can make 1:58!! Think of it, I can race on majority of the circuits against the AIs with no problems, but then there is this. Also, dont question my skills now in an instant, because at tracks like Moscow Raceway and Sachsenring I dont have much experience at but there I can outrace the AIs in a heartbeat with the same skill level. 2.Norisring. I cant even keep up with the AIs here either with skill level 100. With a GTR3 cars I can make times at around 51 seconds but the AIs somehow can make 50 seconds lap times. I at first thought I couldnt drive the GTR3 cars here but this **** happens also with the GTR4 cars. Remind yourselves that I have zero problems with Macau and yes street circuits are tricky but shoudnt be this fragile in terms of difficulty when speaking of AIs 3.Salzburgring Multiple annoyances here. The AIs warp through turn 5 with lightning pace. And then the worser one: During a race with again skill level 100 AIs in GTR3, I was being able to lead the race and I made lap times around 1:19s, but then when I was leading the race, an AI started to catch well up to me and then only to go full Maldonado on the inside of turn 12 and wipes me out. Also this AI did a lap time of 1:18:7. Like, WTF??? 4.Nordschleife Sadly, the issue where one AI flies away in the lead with a warping pace still exists at this amazing track. I know it is the Nurburgring Nordschleife aka the green hell but this to still exist even after a patch? Come on.. Ok now rant over. I know I sound rude but these are yet more issues I endured recently. But since Watkins Glen has been tweaked, my hope for these problems to be fixed is still there. I hope you developers will read this and investigate it ASAP. I also will show you this screenshot I took from a race at Slovakiaring with skill level 99 AIs. No warping this time atleast but check the difference between the P2 and P3 finisher. Another thing to look for. Thank you from me.ยจ PS: I only race at this skill level because I race for fun!
Yes, some tracks seem to be particularily unbalanced. Considering some leaderboards are well filled, so there's good data sample to use, it's a bit disappointing. But KW are apparently slowly progressing on this matter. I happen to have my own share of feedback. I race F4 against AI, also on 100 difficulty. Slovakiaring - the AI simply carries too much speed through flat-out turn 2. This leads to excessively good times in sector 1 and a continous back-and-forth where I get pressured in S1, while I pressure the AI in S2 and sometimes in S3. At first, it's fun, but after a while it just gets annoying. Hungaroring - the AI is exceptionally slow through turn 8, one after the chicane. You can get through it with slight lift, but the AI slows down way too much. They were almost on pace with me through the entire track, but they lost a ton of time in that single turn. If I needed to make an overtake, this was the prime spot, as I could make a clean dive very easily. Autodrom Most - similiar as Hungaro, they're very slow through the sequence before the hairpin in S1. That said, I also gain a lot of time in S2, but it's a bit in every corner instead of one specific spot, where they basically block you.
Points raised here have been noted. Has anyone else experienced the same, got anything to add or would even disagree with anything above?
Yeah, I had the same experience in GT4 and GT3. T1-T10 I'm ganing time, T11-T16 I'm on par, T17-T21 they are faster.
you really need to practice that last section as such from T15 ; getting a really good exit on T17; im as quick as them through that section as such be good if you could screenshot your quali screen and say what level your on ai wise Andi
leaderboards are a pointer ; but realistically they dont provide much info for a base line ; not even a baseline for qualy times i use them to make sure im in the right zone time wise ; then i run loads of laps and different race scenarios to get a blend of times ; which then is part of the data that is used to help determine a certain ai percentage ; while looking at the general points of the ai lap ; this has to try and match up then with a few other things ; its then tweaked and retested across a good few classes ; with extra data coming from real life and alien race laps remebering that the ai arent perfect at certain scenarios ; and the ai code , a lot of its rules are not class specific; they are more general so a balance has to be found there Andi
Yeah, it's possible I'm just slow in these corners, but when I raced against real people in the same combo, it wasn't noticeable. That's after quali, 30 minutes. AI skill is 107. Green number in front of a sector time means this is where this time ends up compared to other AI sector times. And that's after the race (my fastest lap would be 13th compared to other cars). Upd: I just realised AI's fastest laps were significantly faster in the race than in quali, 12 drivers set laptimes faster than P1 in quali. I think that's also something worth looking at.
Slightly unrelated but just another observation when looking at your screenshots: in the race half the field was quicker than the pole time from a 30 minute quali session, not sure thats particularly realistic or intended behaviour
I watched the replay of that race and here are some more observations. 1) In T1 braking area they often (with like 20-40% chance) go too far to the left, on the grass, for half a car width, sometimes more. 2) On T1 exit they are too unstable. In this 10 lap race with 19 AI drivers, 4 drivers spun out on T1 exit (inside the chicane) and 3 drivers had a massive oversteer but managed to catch it. 3) On T17 entry they don't even use all the track width (they leave a car width of space on the left) but they still have a better exit than me. 4) In T20-T21 even older GT3 cars catch up with me, like SLS or even Camaro. To me it looks like too big of a difference, even if we consider I'm bad in these corners.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the way AI works in Raceroom is responsible. First of all, if I'm correct, Raceroom's AI during races works a bit like a hivemind. So you don't have a bunch of individuals, all with predetermined pace, fighting with each other for position. Instead, you have each driver performing based on their position in the field, and it's the entire field's pace that's determined by the difficulty, and then randomized somewhat. There is some in-fighting for position, but if you block a driver from front rows and make him lose a lot of positions, you won't see him recovering through field, like he realistically would, given his superior pace - because when he's further down the hivemind, he won't have that pace anymore, he's now #9 instead of #2. You can sometimes see drivers in the midpack recording some suspiciously quick race lap times, because they speed up to maintain the shape of the field. Individual pace is subjected to general performance of the field. Another observation of mine is that AI's pace isn't transitioned between sessions. It's somewhat random, and it's independently random between sessions even within the same racing weekend. That's how you can end up with slower pace in quali than in races. If that's how it indeed works then it's a quite unorthodox approach that works well if you focus on yourself, but the illusion bursts once you start analyzing individual AI performances. Probably better for a racing game than other way around. That said, lack of pace consistency across several sessions within one event is probably something worth fixing.
I don't think they work "together" and I never saw any reliable info about that. From what I heard, each AI driver has their own "skill" and during each racing event they also have a modifier to their skill to imitate natural fluctuations of performance. On top of that, AI has no strategy in quali, they all go out together and start doing fast laps without making sure they have clean air and they aren't blocked by anyone. What makes it even worse is that they do very long stints in quali, like 6-9 laps on an average-length track (plus outlap, plus inlap), so their order doesn't change often enough. That can explain their inconsistency. I can think of various possible reasons: a) this driver is bad at overtaking; b) AI is generally not very good at overtaking each other if there are no mistakes; c) this driver was in the front row simply because he was lucky during quali. Again, it can be explained with AI pace dropping too much when they fight. So when they are in clean air they show much better pace than when they are in a tight pack.
I did it with a championship leader, one with a big point gap over the rest. So not lucky front position and shouldn't be terrible with overtaking. General inability of AI to overtake could explain that, but we do see AI overtakes. Look at your race, you have a driver on P14 posting his quickest a second quicker than drivers around him, and on par with quickest drivers.
Take into account accidents , cars holding each other up , yellow flags etc , cause a huge difference in lap times Ai isnt an exact science , in thids game , its tweaking , left and right to get a balanced lap time , in a zone we believe is ok Andi
I'm not sure how it contradicts with what I said... 1) This race had several accidents in T1-T2 and the field was quite spread out so many drivers had a good opportunity to set fast laps. 2) This driver had an accident, otherwise he would've finished around 8th place, near similar-paced drivers. How good was he in qualifications? If he was often around 1st place, he wouldn't need to be good with overtaking to have high scores.
Actually, you may be right on this one. Just found some old posts from Alex and ravey confirming that drivers have individual parameters. As well as players reporting huge randomness in their performances regardless. That said, we still don't really know how those parameters translate into final performance. You can translate numbers into final effect in a million ways, some making them crucial, some making them insignificant.