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Question New gt4 AMG trye model

Discussion in 'Community Support' started by MARRIANNE, Sep 14, 2021 at 2:32 PM.

  1. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    Has anybody managed to get a balanced setup on this car????
    Out of the box the AMG is boiling its front left tryes
    but not able to tune this out with the tools provided
    in the garage. i did try tuning the front of the car
    with has little stress on the front as is possible
    within the garage to the extreme,but left front is still boiling
    is the trye model broken ????.
     
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  2. rubenbatista

    rubenbatista Member

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    Maybe try more gentle inputs to the steering wheel but GT4s tipically eat/overheat tyres very fast.
     
  3. BeefMcQueen

    BeefMcQueen Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    It's highly track dependant how your temperature distribution looks like after some laps. You can have a very well balanced setup but it will definitely boil your left front at Zandvoort for example. Not much you can do about that behaviour. A track with 90% fast right-handers just leaves you with unloaded and thus rather cold right tyres. Maybe a softer front anti roll bar could help to even out the load distribution a tad and to shift (some) work back over to the right front. But don't expect wonders. Not easy to help not knowing the track you're having the problem btw. But what you're experiencing is rather a sign of a functional tyre model than of a broken one.

    Oli
     
  4. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    Hey beef thanks for info, last time out running zero ARB removed all preload on left and put it on right just to see results, inside tire temp does not seem to be effected by camber and i now have no more adjustment of camber in pits has slider is now at limits, i cannot get any temp distribution righthand side is cold lefthand side up-to 116 degrees.

    im finding this is a common problem across the range of cars in raceroom and watching vids on utube its very common to hearJim from crew chief calling"your righthand tires are cold", would be much better if the devs could supply cars with at least a neutral base setup.Dont know if the devs read these posts but i did report a few months ago that manual clutch is destroying transmission but one of the beta testers basically told me it was a figment of my imagination, so i use autoclutch now, drove the group two VW yesterday with autoclutch and that is now destroying the transmission when changing down to first unless i park on the apex. Dont know if this car has had any updates but autoclutch was fine on VW on release of DLC. i own all tracks and cars for raceroom and im not to happy when things work on release and get nerfed further down the road.
     
  5. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    What track/s are you testing on? What happens at Imola or Monza for instance?
    Have you tried runnning with less steering lock, lower TC, rear wing and harder rear settings or more rear brake bias to get the car to turn in naturally and need less input?

    Does front tyre wear correspond to the temps?
    I don´t have this car so I can´t test but how does it compare to the other front engined GT4 like the BMW in terms of tyre temps and wear?
     
  6. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I did 10 laps in AMG and BMW on Raceroom Bridge, and by lap 11 the BMW's front left was actually 3 degrees hotter than AMG's, other tires were 1-2 degrees hotter too. Although my driving style was on the aggressive side and it should have a greater affect on BMW temps since it's more "slide-ey".
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021 at 9:58 AM
  7. BeefMcQueen

    BeefMcQueen Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Default setups just are based on tracks which offer a similar amount of left and right handers, with a variety of fast and slow ones aswell. They are really very neutral in terms of balance, rather somewhat understeering, and can be used on any track without the need for extreme changes. So the claim that developers do not provide neutral base setups is a bit bold. Especially since your observations obviously depend on the specific track in use (which we still don't know yet). No setup change in the world could prevent the left tyres from overheating in a permanently fast driven (English) roundabout for example.
    Your adjustments to disable the ARB completely and adjust the spring rate asymmetrically (I assume that's what you meant by preload) are guaranteed not to help matters. I would take the default setup and first try to achieve a reasonable temperature distribution per tyre, without paying too much attention to the differences between right and left. Just camber and pressure - no other adjustments. This is the first and most crucial thing to do to maximize grip per wheel and not destroy a setup that actually works. For GT4, a drop of about 10C° from the inside to the outside would be desirable. The temperature in the middle should be exactly in between (100/95/90 I/M/O for example) As I said, big differences between the left and right side of the car simply can't be avoided depending on the track. Just take the default setup and do some laps at the Sachsenring. The opposite to your FL problem will happen: your right front will be cooked in no time, instead.
    If you struggle to achieve a proper temp spread of fallof across the tread, this also might be due to real life setup restrictions. The GT4 KTM's camber adjustability for example is limited in such a way, that it is impossible to get a proper 10° fall-off FL at Zandvoort. The tyre just sits too flat throughout fast right handers even though you already maxed negative camber out. That's a BOP restriction based on the real series to tone down the car's cornering performance.

    Oli
     
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  8. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    Hey Peter sorry did not see your post many thanks for the set-up file, not had a great deal of time to test yet but first impressions at "Most" and "Zandvoort" are that by lap 4 RH Tire is overheating and 30+ degree difference between left and right, front is a little too stiff for me so i could be over driving, initial turn-in for me was very sluggish but will have a tweak later, many thanks Peter will let you know how i get on if your interested . :cool:
     
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  9. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    Hey Oli :cool:
    been testing at Most and Zandvoort, but this L/Hand bias has been noticed on other tracks, you make some interesting comment thanks

    Oli said
    Default setups just are based on tracks which offer a similar amount of left and right handers, with a variety of fast and slow ones aswell. They are really very neutral in terms of balance, rather somewhat understeering, and can be used on any track without the need for extreme changes. So the claim that developers do not provide neutral base setups is a bit bold. Especially since your observations obviously depend on the specific track in use (which we still don't know yet).

    All default setups on all the cars (the ones i drive anyway) have the same lefthand bias, feels more like a algorithm than a set up, each track would have a base setup persay, thought Race 07 did this neutral setup rather well.

    Oli said
    Your adjustments to disable the ARB completely and adjust the spring rate asymmetrically (I assume that's what you meant by preload) are guaranteed not to help matters.

    not true IRL many teams in many classes disable ARB in FWD/RWD, ARB's reduce weight transfer to outside wheel , Damper's effect how fast weight is moved,any softening either springs or roll bars usualy gives driver a bit more feel.

    Oli said
    As I said, big differences between the left and right side of the car simply can't be avoided depending on the track

    your kidding right !

    Oli said
    The GT4 KTM's camber adjustability for example is limited in such a way, that it is impossible to get a proper 10° fall-off FL at Zandvoort. The tyre just sits too flat throughout fast right handers even though you already maxed negative camber out. That's a BOP restriction based on the real series to tone down the car's cornering performance.

    the tire model is not compatible with the BOP, in the real series you can tune out static camber with caster, you can effectively tune your camber dynamically and can use toe out more effectively to exaggerate your turn in phase at very little cost, this tool is missing in raceroom :cool:
     
  10. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    I should probably chime in here before the misinformation gets too strong.

    Firstly, there is absolutely zero "handedness" to any of our default setups. Weight distributions are all split 50/50 left/right on all of our cars, which is in fact better than most can achieve in the real world.

    In the real world the GT4 KTMs run the caster maxed out, and our car reflects that. Even though it's not currently adjustable in the garage menu, if it were it'd be at the highest setting. That's how it it behind the scenes.

    Disconnect the front anti-roll bar from the AMG if you like, but I can't see it being a particularly useful direction to go in. It's already quite soft and rolls a lot. I imagine turn-in will suffer because of the excessive roll as well as creating a lot of mid-turn oversteer. I can also envisage it requiring a lot of camber adding to the front end and chasing damper settings for several days.
     
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  11. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
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  12. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    if you would post a balanced setup for AMG at Zandvoort so i can use a product i have bought that would be super, and would put any misunderstandings to bed
     
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  13. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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  14. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    your unwillingness to stand by your product is alarming, the setup is not in there is it Alex, while you sort the math out could we have the option to drop the tire off at the pits and pick it up a few laps later when it has cooled down, or could you get the group 2 VW autoclutch sorted so it does not destroy itself, it was fine on release. Has a parent im not keen on throwing money away. Why not have a word with Henrik im sure he could help
     
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  15. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    Please stop it. The cringe is physically painful.
     
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  16. MARRIANNE

    MARRIANNE New Member

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    left click name then ignore and your pain will be no more

    im a poet and i dont know it :cool:
     
  17. Lixma

    Lixma Honorary QA

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    It's not the car, it's the track. Zandvoort murders the left-front tire. There are three long, brutal right-handers that no amount of tinkering will prevent the LF from melting.

    Here's two more Mercedes suffering just the same.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Make your own setup and stop acting so entitled.
     
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  19. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I find that at Zandvoort it's faster overall to not attack those corners. If you drive smooth you can actually keep the tyres in check and thus have more grip and go faster. Less is more.

    Some people seem to think that there's a magic setup whereby tyres will remain at perfect temperature, that's not the case in the real world or in sim. It's all a compromise.
     
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  20. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    And Sachsenring woud have the same effect on the RF.

    Actually there is a possible solution and that woud be to allow use of harder compound sets on different axles or sides of the car and not always 4 softs or four hards. I know that GT4s only run a standard compound but it´s common in many other series to mix compounds.
    Just don´t ever mix cross ply and radial tyres!

     
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